The Lorekeepers' Club (An all-purpose thread for deep dives about how the Pokémon world works)

[Nitro Indigo]

We see distinctly not-Corsola coral in games as recent as New Pokémon Snap. Coral is an animal.

 

[Almonds]

I find it interesting that the games have large businesses that each play a role in the story and have connections to the villains. Silph Co., Devon Corp, Lysandre Labs, and Macro Cosmos. Team Rocket took over Silph Co. during the game, Shelley and Tabitha were Devon employees at one point, and the major antagonists for Kalos and Galar are the presidents Lysandre and Rose.

 

[Esserise]

When it comes to animals in the Pokémon world, personally I don’t assume the presence of anything we aren’t shown. I think even ORAS show some coral in certain underwater areas, so that’s one example of an animal that’s definitely in, but I’m not going to assume there are, like, regular dogs until we actually see a regular dog. That’s just my own way of interpreting it.

I find it interesting that the games have large businesses that each play a role in the story and have connections to the villains. Silph Co., Devon Corp, Lysandre Labs, and Macro Cosmos. Team Rocket took over Silph Co. during the game, Shelley and Tabitha were Devon employees at one point, and the major antagonists for Kalos and Galar are the presidents Lysandre and Rose.

It is helpful in that it goes some of the way toward justifying how these groups could acquire the massive amounts of technology and investment that they would need in order to actually operate. Cyrus, Lysandre, and Rose being very wealthy entrepreneurs puts them in a position where they can leverage their wealth and resources in order to successfully operate a secret criminal society/cult. Meanwhile, Giovanni is your typical mob boss archetype, so he’s kind of in the same boat, just without the philanthropic public face.

Ghetsis is the only one who doesn’t get anything like that (Guzma and Piers are nonconformist punks living in disrepair and leading petty gangs so this doesn’t really apply to them, while Lusamine inherited her father’s multibillion-dollar conservation group and simply continued his efforts from there) and indeed, I kind of always wondered how and where Team Plasma got the funding to build stuff like the Plasma Frigate or N’s Castle.

 

[Sheep40]

I like to believe they just stole it from it's actual makers: house harmonia (who I headcanonise as these kind of modern phanariotes who have their tentacles in a lot of different megacorporations).

 

[Almonds]

Ghetsis had to have had some kind of wealth, though. He was Colress' sponsor.

 

[Esserise]

Ghetsis had to have had some kind of wealth, though. He was Colress' sponsor.

Alternative/accompanying idea: The word sponsor there makes me think that maybe it could have been the other Seven Sages who gave Team Plasma its funding and logistical support? Ghetsis went around the world to find these "knowledgeable people," so maybe he specifically went looking for men of significant wealth, status, and/or influence whom he felt confidently he could convince (or bribe?) to support his project.

 

[elementcollector1]

Alternatively, given House Harmonia is quite probably (one of?) the royal families of Unova legend, Ghetsis could inherit considerable wealth simply by acting as N's regent (assuming N is the true heir of the Harmonia line - he and Ghetsis share the surname Harmonia-Gropius, but I never figured that out...). Much like the current British royal family, the title would still confer wealth and status even if he holds no real governmental power.

That's not to say the other six Sages weren't involved in resource acquisition - I agree that Ghetsis likely chose them for practical reasons, be those sociopolitical or simply financial. None of their dialogue seems to suggest what, exactly, they were doing before becoming Sages.

 

[Sheep40]

I would assume then that house harmonia has it's roots in pokemon's version of Greece (hence "phanariote", who were ottoman-Greek merchant princes). This is because of the chi rho emblem of team plasma (which references the byzantine empire) and that much of the house has Greek-inspired names (n's sisters prominently).

 

[elementcollector1]

Watching a playthrough of Black, and Ghetsis notes that he 'gathered knowledgeable people from all corners of the world' to form the Sages. That, and their dialogue, makes me think they're ultimately just philosophers or suitably 'smart' people...

 

[Welkamo]

Gonna revive this thread, because I was thinking about writing a Team Rocket/Madame Boss centric fic.

Team Rocket experts: Is there a comprehensive history of Team Rocket/Madame Boss/Giovanni?

 

[Jukain726]

Gonna revive this thread, because I was thinking about writing a Team Rocket/Madame Boss centric fic.

Team Rocket experts: Is there a comprehensive history of Team Rocket/Madame Boss/Giovanni?

If there was, I think it had something to do with the radio dramas. research The only connection I see is The Birth of Mewtwo. I don't think it really spells out the history of Team Rocket in relation to Madame Boss and Giovanni.

Also, in another thread speculating if the move Attract works on humans, I came to the conclusion that pokemon moves are an expression of the user's will. That means that anything that can naturally happen can be done with a pokemon move; however, I also see that with enough skill and power, it is possible that a pokemon can alter reality to their own ends. (to make something happen even when it normally can't) This seems to be a property only possessed by certain pokemon. The rest would suggest it goes deeper; that moves are a part of a pokemon's being, which I would still count as will, except it can't be consciously controlled, like an instinct.

 

[Jukain726]

I've been pondering what "male" and "female" is for pokemon, related to the idea that breeding is just a game mechanic and everything related to that is not really a part of the lore of the world. The designation exists outside of breeding, but it doesn't seem to have any real effect on any aspect of the pokemon. It's even true that pokemon that could be considered mechanical or pure energy also have a sex, and since they are not organic, that doesn't make sense. (except in the case of the mechanical ones, they could speaking of either a protuberance or orifice that it fits into, although this is not always apparent) If it's the idea of masculine and feminine, it would have to depend on how you define those, since there are a number of ways they can subvert what the common ideas for those are. I know it's controversial, but it's possible they "identify" as the sex apparent. (which would technically make it a gender, but I digress)

EDIT: Every pokemon that I could consider "mechanical" doesn't have a sex designated to it, so never mind on that, but mind you, I don't have an exact definition for that since some Steel type pokemon could blur the lines on that)

 

[elementcollector1]

According to the 1996 Pokedex, Staryu (a 'genderless' Pokemon) is a hermaphrodite (which is unlike typical sea stars).

Typically, 'male' is biologically defined as something that submits genetic material (the gamete), and 'female' as something that combines it with their genetic material (the larger gamete, typically called the ovum). Thus, 'genderless' is not necessarily lacking reproductive organs but rather falling outside the male-female definition in some manner - organisms which reproduce asexually, organisms that are hermaphroditic, or organisms that have a tertiary sex would all be viable candidates for 'genderless' simplification and have existing examples in nature.

Pokemon-specific alternates (which do not exist in nature) would be Ghosts like Shedinja (a dead husk has no gender - if it can reproduce in the Mineral group, that would indicate this group does not require the typical fertilization process) or synthetic creatures like Porygon (reproduction would likely entail something different, as Porygon's Pokedex entries specifically mention it's been copy-protected).

Unbreedable genderless Pokemon (99.9% of which are Legendary/Mythical/Ultra Beast, the lone remainder being Ditto) seem likely to be assigned as such due to breeding conditions rather than biology - the term used currently is "No Eggs Discovered," and given Eggs aren't real eggs, this would indicate these Pokemon/Ultra Beasts are unwilling to reproduce with others (possibly specifically in the Day Care setting), rather than unable.

Pokemon also should all have DNA of some type if we assume the entries about Mew are correct, which would mean that even pure-energy, ghost or otherwise inorganic Pokemon would have genetic material to pass down.

 

[Jukain726]

The only way that can make sense for me is to consider DNA in the figurative sense, in that there is a quality of Mew's energy that is shared even by those kind of pokemon.

The rest would have energy and matter virtually inseparable in the pokeworld, save for energy being insubstantial.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

I always thought that only organic Pokémon were descended from Mew.