What is your biggest complaint about the Pokemon series?

[Owain]

^^

Those series =/= Pokémon series.

 

[Cybersai]

I think the way both Misty and Brock were handled overall is worth mentioning. Both started off strong for their first 150 or so episodes, but afterward the writers seemingly treated them as being nothing more than characters who stand around getting no proper development.

They are giving Cilan lots of screentime so he avoids Brock's fate, but I hope Iris gets some focus soon or else she'll be another character of wasted potential.

 

[GreatLiver]

There is nothing really and truly honestly bad about the series TBH. If the series was changed to every fan's enjoyment, would it really be that good of a series? I'm not questioning the OP's motives at all, but honestly speaking, if fans controlled the series, would it be as popular? Absolutely not from my standpoint, because although I've just joined, my many months of being a guest shows me, that especially on here, people don't agree all the time.

This is fine, if, and only if, as fans we had no say, which we thankfully don't. It is natural to be angry at the writers for them not to do certain things the fans want, but at times wouldn't you say as fans we become selfish and unappreciative? It seems like to me, that no one truly values the show, unless it goes according to plan. I must admit, I've had my moments as well, but the show is only enjoyable, when a fan says it is, which is sad.

I don't really think anyone's saying fans should write it by any means. We all know how awful fanfics can be.

 

[Caseydia]

I have no complaints yet. This is good.

 

[CrazySillyMan]

I don't really think anyone's saying fans should write it by any means. We all know how awful fanfics can be.

I know that, I'm just saying that if fans truly had it their way, the show may not be enjoyable. This thread was made for other's to talk about certain issues fans have with show. As fans, we do not have to agree with everything, but if things in the show were really that bad, why keep watching?

Some fans also contradict themselves. For example, if Johto was all about battling, it could have become more dry than it was considered to be. Fillers are not a bad thing, and can be useful to flesh out a saga.

Another thing, people complain about Misty and Brock often not doing anything, but with Ash as the star, and them not having a clear, cut, precise, and regular routine actions to take to achieve it, what else is left for them to do. I personally found Misty and Brock to fit perfectly into each saga they were.

It is nice for fans to want more, and to have preferences, but for those who think it is absolutely necessary or detrimental to the show, need a reality check of some sort, IMO.

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

I'm usually too annoyed at the fandom to develop any strong legitimate complaints about the series itself.

Best. Answer. Ever.

Seriously, it gets sickening to read complaints about how this or that saga sucks simply because this character is or isn't part of that group, or because this didn't happen even with the supposed "evidence" that it was suppose to, ect.

I'm not too fond of Pikachu's power seemingly reseting every saga (though at least it's understandable as long as Ash is around), but if I had to choose just one, it would probably be Trip. Ash's rivals go from one that fans have wanted for a long time to a watered-down version of him more mellow but still arrogant kind of rival who teases the hero until the Grand Finale when he shows more respect for him that we've already seen several times before (I know it's still early to know that for sure but who doesn't see that happening again?) but is also a beginner to make Ash look even more like a noob.

 

[Cybersai]

Some fans also contradict themselves. For example, if Johto was all about battling, it could have become more dry than it was considered to be. Fillers are not a bad thing, and can be useful to flesh out a saga.

Sagas can have a perfect balance of filler and important episodes. I honestly thought Hoenn was one of the best paced arcs of the series. It was only 130 episodes yet covered two heroes stories and a bunch of Pokemon on the group.

Another thing, people complain about Misty and Brock often not doing anything, but with Ash as the star, and them not having a clear, cut, precise, and regular routine actions to take to achieve it, what else is left for them to do. I personally found Misty and Brock to fit perfectly into each saga they were.

They were fine for Kanto/Orange, but during Johto it became especially noticeable that they were being neglected. It got worse for Brock since he stayed two more generations yet got ignored even more due to the intro of Contests.

It is nice for fans to want more, and to have preferences, but for those who think it is absolutely necessary or detrimental to the show, need a reality check of some sort, IMO.

I think the writers have been improved aspects of the show each gen, so whatever the case, they do some things better a tiny bit each generation.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Ash kinda sucks for being a main character. No wonder I usually end up cheering for his rivals, they are far better than him 90% of the show, and he pulls a win out of his ass once or twice.

 

[Zenax]

There's only 3 things bothering me:
First, Ash is still 10 years old. After 4 Regions, I'd expect him to be at least 13 years old. It would be cool to see some maturation from him. However, he matured a lot in AG and DP compared to the original serie.

Second, changing his travelling companions every series is a bit annoying, altough it put some diversity in the anime. They add a new character that follows Ash for ~200 episodes, make her appear for 2-3 episodes in the next serie then throw her in the garbage can (Misty for 2 episodes and May for the Wallace cup).

Third and last is that there's too many of Ash's Pokémon that don't/refuse to evolve. Pikachu randomly decided to not evolve after getting his butt kicked by a Raichu, and Bulbasaur for no reason at all. Squirtle could've evolve at least in a Wartortle, and Totodile in Croconaw/Feraligatr to go with Bayleef/Quilava.

I also had some trouble with the voice change between AG and DP, but I'm used to it since then.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I don't really think anyone's saying fans should write it by any means. We all know how awful fanfics can be.

On ther hand to be fair sme of their ideas seem worthy enough that they could work out fine in series.

Personally i would enjoy alot more in this show if characters werent replaced so often giving chance to older ones to to shine more developing their stories further instead of starting with each new generation from scratch.I dont see nothing appealing in that.

Another thing, people complain about Misty and Brock often not doing anything, but with Ash as the star, and them not having a clear, cut, precise, and regular routine actions to take to achieve it, what else is left for them to do. I personally found Misty and Brock to fit perfectly into each saga they were.

Both of this characters had goals which could have been precised more doing something with their stories.Mistys goal for example was to become water pokemon master,but aside from Whirl Cup writers writers didnt expanded on it at all breaking new grounds with it like having her compete in more events,have her pokemon more battling screentime,avoid some of them being neglected so much(Goldeen was basically nonexistant)and establish little more how its supposed to achieve her dream she strived for.

In Mistys case reason they didnt was because ex head writer for original series Takeshi Shudo appareantly didnt cared much for main cast not giving her bigger role or focus to do something with story which was left underdeveloped admitting himself mistake he did.

Both Brock and Misty got fine screentime in Kanto and OI but in long region like Johto was writers could surely have better use of spotlight by giving more focus on Ash travelling companions like having them battle more,flesh them out as characters doing some notable progrss in their stories.Instead they wasted it on many uncessary fillers which didnt focused on anyone in main cast.

Sure supporting characters werent expected to get as much as co-stars like May and Dawn did,but in all honesty that doesnt mean they cant have their stories and goals developed more aswell.
Thing is they didnt received enough even for supporting characters.

They were fine for Kanto/Orange, but during Johto it became especially noticeable that they were being neglected. It got worse for Brock since he stayed two more generations yet got ignored even more due to the intro of Contests.

It got worse for Brock already in Johto.Misty battled more getting overall more focus than he did in that saga.

 

[Froakie]

I'm also annoyed at how Brock didn't win that contest against May, come on writers it was obvious he should have won.

 

[Elite Four Will]

Majority of screentime always one-sided.

 

[Hikari10]

I don't get why they don't make Ash look a little older? Well, I think after Best Wishes they should have a special that Ash, Iris, Cilan, Misty, Brock, May, Max, Tracey and Dawn all reunite with each other. It'll be pretty good to see them all together. Also, I don't mind the new VA they're just as good as the 4Kids VA's. I like how in Best Wishes they've changed the graphics of Pokemon getting caught and evolving, they even changed the graphics of Iron Tail (yep, Pikachu's tail now looks like real metal when he uses it). Also, Ash's first Unova Pokemon evolution has occurred in Japan (his Pidove evolving into Tranquill). But shouldn't they have written off Ash when Diamond & Pearl ended and replaced him with the main characters of the new games, Pokemon Black & White (The BW game main characters - Hilbert/Blair, Hilda/Whitlea, Bianca and Cheren are aged between 13 and 16).

 

[Kaitou Kid]

On ther hand to be fair sme of their ideas seem worthy enough that they could work out fine in series.

Personally i would enjoy alot more in this show if characters werent replaced so often giving chance to older ones to to shine more developing their stories further instead of starting with each new generation from scratch.I dont see nothing appealing in that.

Both of this characters had goals which could have been precised more doing something with their stories.Mistys goal for example was to become water pokemon master,but aside from Whirl Cup writers writers didnt expanded on it at all breaking new grounds with it like having her compete in more events,have her pokemon more battling screentime,avoid some of them being neglected so much(Goldeen was basically nonexistant)and establish little more how its supposed to achieve her dream she strived for.

In Mistys case reason they didnt was because ex head writer for original series Takeshi Shudo appareantly didnt cared much for main cast not giving her bigger role or focus to do something with story which was left underdeveloped admitting himself mistake he did.

Both Brock and Misty got fine screentime in Kanto and OI but in long region like Johto was writers could surely have better use of spotlight by giving more focus on Ash travelling companions like having them battle more,flesh them out as characters doing some notable progrss in their stories.Instead they wasted it on many uncessary fillers which didnt focused on anyone in main cast.

Sure supporting characters werent expected to get as much as co-stars like May and Dawn did,but in all honesty that doesnt mean they cant have their stories and goals developed more aswell.
Thing is they didnt received enough even for supporting characters.

It got worse for Brock already in Johto.Misty battled more getting overall more focus than he did in that saga.

You know what, I always see you post something about giving the older characters more time to develop themselves, but then you just go on and on about Misty and her "needed to be fleshed out" development, but okay lets put Misty in Brock shoes. She's the one that stayed and he got the boot. Do you honestly think she would have fared any better, if not more than Brock? Cause I sure as hell don't, sure by Hoenn the writing was getting better and Pokemon other than Pikachu were getting personalities, but once Togepi left, she didn't have much going for her, if she stayed, she probably wouldn't have caught Gyarados and probably like Dawn, instead of allowing her to overcome this fear, she'd probably still be scared of them, hell, maybe they could have had her catch a bug Pokemon. The Cerulean Gym probably would have been shut down, because her sisters are irresponsible and the worst leaders I've ever seen in that show.

She probably wouldn't have caught much and just like Brock, her older Pokemon would have gotten shafted even more in favor of the current ones, you know, I honestly forgot Brock even owned a Forretress, because after about 4 episode appearances in Hoenn we hardly ever saw it again. I wonder which Pokemon of Misty's would have gotten that treatment. . . probably Corsola.

So, lets say she caught Mudkip, you think it would have reached Swampert? I don't, maybe it would have evolved, probably trying to save her from a Gyarados or something, since she probably wouldn't even be bothered with Contests, Lotad into Ludicolo? Lotad probably would have been another Psyduck, hell she probably wouldn't have gotten it at all. They maybe would have given her a Wingull, but who knows.

By Sinnoh, hmm what could she do? Dawn and May had contests and giving Misty them as well would just be redundant and boring, she'd just be on the sidelines, like Brock, commenting on battles, giving encouragement, training off screen and never capturing anything. She'd get stale, repetitive and by the time they kicked her off, fans would probably still complain she didn't get her closure or some shit and the writers did her dirty.

I understand that you like Misty, I get that you feel as though she got the short end of the stick. But dude, you need to realize, at the end of the day Pokemon will never be about Ash and his friends stories, its about Ash's story and unless their names get bumped up to Co-Star status, they will never accomplish anything more than what they need to because that's how these writers work. The show revolves around Ash, his friends just work around him, they don't get his special treatment. Can't you just be happy Misty got this much, rather than nothing at all? Sure, May and Dawn got better treatment, Dawn was understandable and May was the one that paved the way for her, but Brock and Misty and Max got the short ends of the sticks because they were nothing more than characters to fill a spot so Ash wouldn't be so one dimensional granted, he kinda is, but at least his friends varying personalities make up for it somewhat.

I could say, Pokemon would be better if it were just Ash and we didn't worry about him traveling with his friends and traveling by himself, but we all know that's a lie and Ash is about as dull as a doorknob by himself, his impulsiveness would get him in to so much shit, he wouldn't know what to do. Without outside help, Pikachu would have probably been gone by like the eighth episode, because Ash doesn't have the common sense to survive on his own or use what's in his arsenal, instead of looking stuck on stupid, when someone steals from him.

They also screwed her over by giving her such an open ended goal, because we all know, that when you travel with Ash Ketchum, you don't get to accomplish anything majorly important, your extra baggage is just a hindrance, you take a back seat to his quest and his alone, because he's the main character and the show revolves around him and his shoulder rat, and they are nothing more than side characters that got lucky, at least off screen or in side stories, the characters seem to accomplish a hell of a lot more than when they're traveling with Ash.

 

[CrazySillyMan]

@ Gliscor'd: Even though Hoenn was nicely balanced, that does not necessarily mean it was one of the better sagas. There are some viewers who prefer longer sagas, with less battles, and no contests, which would be Johto. I'm well aware that a saga can be very well balanced with fillers and action, but not every saga has to be to be considered good. Kanto was great, yes, Sinnoh had much more developed animation, but what can anyone expect after 10 years of a series already.

As for Misty and Brock, as far as I look at it, Brock never became stale, because if Brock was that much of a bore, bother, pain to have, he would have been removed a long time ago, they already did it once before, and while fans were pissed beyond all recognition, they clearly had no problem removing Misty, which is something unfortunately many fans have not moved forward from. Pokemon Characters are like celebrities, they all have their time to shine, but their glory days will be over one day, not including cameos of course, and for those who just enjoy their characters or simply are obsessed with them, need to enjoy them in their prime.

As far as neglection, eh, clearly, if neglection for Misty and Brock was something that was extreme, I doubt the show would still exist to this very day. I never looked at the writers as changing for the better, I just saw them as evolving for a profit, and and knowing what the target audience wants at the time.

@ Pokemon fan 132: It's understanding that you think Misty and Brock should have gotten much more screentime, but think about it, would the show still be the same? Would it be as enjoyable? I am not a crazed Ash fan at all, I'm just saying, that the flow of things would not be how they usually were. The same thing applies to May, Max, Tracey, and Dawn, and Iris to a lesser extent.

May and Dawn's contest arcs were focused on in completely different ways. You can't blame May or the writers for actually just starting out with contests and making them appear more-so like battles, compared to Dawn's. Contests were just starting out,it's natural for them to appear as like mini-battle arcs of some sort, which is probably why many more Males or Tomboys appealed more to May than to Dawn, because Dawn's arc had much more glitz and glam. It does not make Dawn any less, for her arc actually perfected what a contest truly is, but make no mistake May introduced them.

Fans can dream yes, and prefer certain things, but if all of these things were taken into affect, it would be madness and mahem. I don't consider myself any more highly of any fan out there, for there's many, but for the one's who are out there, believe Ash needs to be older than he actually is, or characters should be permanent on the show, or that rivals are developed poorly, need to remember the power of plot. At least, that's how I look at it. For example, I don't believe in the term supporting characters when it comes to Pokemon, same as co-star. Ash may be the main star, but every other character, including Team Rocket, was a star in their own right for that season alone.

 

[Masurao]

Ash kinda sucks for being a main character. No wonder I usually end up cheering for his rivals, they are far better than him 90% of the show, and he pulls a win out of his ass once or twice.

The main rivals are ALWAYS better than the main character, mainly throughout the saga's. This applies for May, and Dawn too...not just Ash. Also, his victories against his main rivals are not ass-pulls. There are a few other examples of actual ridiculous victories such as thunder armor.

But that does touch on a complaint I have. I wish they would balance out the rivalries more. All this one-sided stuff with Ash/Paul, May/Drew, Dawn/Zoey, and now Ash/Shooti (just because?) is kinda old.

 

[Cybersai]

@ Gliscor'd: Even though Hoenn was nicely balanced, that does not necessarily mean it was one of the better sagas. There are some viewers who prefer longer sagas, with less battles, and no contests, which would be Johto. I'm well aware that a saga can be very well balanced with fillers and action, but not every saga has to be to be considered good. Kanto was great, yes, Sinnoh had much more developed animation, but what can anyone expect after 10 years of a series already.

To each their own, I guess. If some people prefer long, badly paced, boring sagas that consist of nothing more than Ash helping COTD's with problems, no plot, almost no development for the main cast, few battles and uninteresting Pokemon on the cast, Johto is for them. Most people actually prefer interesting things to happen in the series.

I didn't like the Johto arc beyond a few standalone funny eps here and there, and there are plenty of other people didn't. If the show right now hadn't changed at all since Johto, most of us would not still be watching. I know I sure as hell wouldn't be here.

I didn't get into Pokemon to watch Ash help one-shot COTD's with problems. If anyone thought that was what Pokemon was about, you've clearly been tricked by the derailment of Johto of the anime. Johto's select few great episodes here and there could not save the arc as a whole.

But that said, people are free to like Johto all they want. Its none of my business.

As for Misty and Brock, as far as I look at it, Brock never became stale, because if Brock was that much of a bore, bother, pain to have, he would have been removed a long time ago, they already did it once before, and while fans were pissed beyond all recognition, they clearly had no problem removing Misty, which is something unfortunately many fans have not moved forward from.

Are you being serious? Plenty of fans wanted Brock gone for years. I remember when the DP cast was revealed, people actually complained that Brock was coming back yet again. While there will always people that like Brock, the writers only kept him around so they had someone to explain Ash's battles and so forth. He clearly wasn't there to get much focus as a character himself.

As for Misty, its the same deal, there was ton of complaining about Misty in Johto and the only reason you don't hear much of it anymore is Johto is over 10 years old and most people aren't currently watching it. And of course they had no problem removing Misty, Takeshi Shudo flat out thought she had no major purpose in the series.

As far as neglection, eh, clearly, if neglection for Misty and Brock was something that was extreme, I doubt the show would still exist to this very day. I never looked at the writers as changing for the better, I just saw them as evolving for a profit, and and knowing what the target audience wants at the time.

The show didn't change for the better? Johto was a massive downgrade after the consistently great Kanto and Orange Islands. Not only did Johto fail compared to Kanto/Orange, but what did that boring, bad repetitive Johto arc do better than any of the arcs that came after?

Back in 2001, Johto was considered the time the anime jumped the shark and most Kanto/Orange fans stopped watching halfway into the series.

Hell, the Johto arc was so disliked that Dogasu even documented the fandom hate for it on his website way back in 2003:

http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparisons/houen/ep001.html

I am a Kanto/Orange fan and that's why I disliked Johto so much, the loss of quality in transition from the first two seasons into Johto was staggering.


If Johto really WAS like Kanto and Orange Islands, I probably would have loved it. Unfortunately nobody can turn a blind eye to how the writing changed into Johto, and that's why I almost abandoned the series for good back in 2001.

I think the only reason I got back into it is because by league time I wanted to see Ash finally beat Gary, Charizard/Squirtle returned, and I heard the writers were rebooting the anime for a new series afterward.

 

[BlackwaterPark]

^Woah, somebody doesn't like Johto very much.

In all honesty, though, I agree with a lot of that, but I think a lot of those problems actually started in the Orange Islands. It just wasn't as apparent because the series was so short. Speaking of Orange Islands, I didn't like what they did with the gym challenges, at all. It just didn't seem right.

 

[CrazySillyMan]

@ Gliscor'd: You are absolutely right, to each their own. The aspect I was trying to touch upon, however, was the simple fact that if things were that bad, the series would have ended a while ago. Still, to this day, the writers are finding more creative ways to keep it around, which is always a good thing for the fans, even if it is primarily for the money. The writers know what will keep fans watching, and they know what moves to make, no matter how much it may anger people. For example, yes Misty was replaced, but wasn't Brock considered more detrimental? Wouldn't it make more sense to do a complete reboot, with the exception of Ash, Pikachu, and Team Rocket like for Best Wishes? Ash, Misty, and Brock had some iconic moments together, and some that others perceive to have fallen flat. Whatever the case may be though, is it really fair to say that they were sidekicks and lacked development, when clearly, their goals were very foggy and barley touched upon?

For example, Team Rocket's new sense of direction, is not necessarily a bad or good thing, it is whatever the writers want it to be. A fan is allowed to have their issues with the show, but ultimately can they truly be called a fan if they hate those issues that much? Why watch if there is so many things bad about a series? Some may only tune in to see how it ends. As you've said, you have tuned in once again because there were certain situations that happened that were much pleasing to you, in other words, the good outweighed the bad.

Every saga has its good points, because if not, the series would have considered "jumping the shark" and would have long ago ended. Some arguments that you argue for Johto, some may argue for other sagas. For example, with Sewaddle's capture in Best Wishes, Ash goes beyond his usual limit, well isn't that what the fanbase wanted? Dento gets screentime, he does not necessarily become Brock 2.0, that's what others hoped for, something fresh. But while this may all be true, viewers can only hope this stays the same, or is touched more upon, or is completely stopped. No one has to like what is happening in Best Wishes now, no one has to hate what is happening, but I do think every saga deserves a chance. There are some good moments in every saga that ever existed. There is at least 1 episode someone has said they had liked, and there is at least one thing a character did that was likeable. I'm not saying you are saying there aren't but as far as I recall, Johto did not have that many angry mobs.

 

[Cybersai]

As far back as I remember most people never saw all of Johto in it's original run. The abrupt departures of Charizard and Squirtle, the dropping of the GS ball with no closure and the endless fillers turned many people off.

If you look at the box office sales for Movie 3 in the U.S. you'll see how consistently less the movie grossed than the first two.

Most people here didn't see all of Johto until
much later on after they got back into the series.