Would you have rather had Z or ORAS knowing only one would exist?

[~ Blazing White Yang]

If I had to choose between the two, then Z. I was actually revisiting Emerald and a few other 3rd Gen Games in 2014 well before the remakes surfaced, so I didn't have any desire to see an update at the time. And since ORAS went undid almost everything that I liked about Emerald changes (on top of doing things that I simply wasn't a big fan of, like the new character designs, increased railroading in story, execution of the Delta scenario, etc.), it wasn't even a satisfying revisit to me. The new features and better defined characters were nice, but I ultimately just wound up being bitter about everything they didn't do.

Z is a 'lesser of two evils' kind of scenario with me. I don't like the idea of them doing a 3rd Edition in this day and age (and ideally I'd want 'Z' to be part of the X&Y experience from the start), but I'll take a fully fleshed out, more polished Kalos Region over Hoenn remakes being a fraction of the fun I had with the originals.

 

[InfiniteBakuphoon]

Well, I look at it like this: ORAS was a remake of a twelve-year-old game from an ancient, incompatible system. Z, had it come out in 2015, would have been a remake of a two-year-old game from the exact same system as its still-available predecessors. So from that perspective - as much as I would have liked to see an improved/expanded storyline and how Zygarde would have played into it - I'd say that I would rather have ORAS, easily.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Even if they did make a Z version, I'm not sure if it would have lived up to everyone's expectations and hopes. It could have been a good game and exploring an expanded Kalos could have been fun, but a lot of people act like it would have saved the sixth generation or as if it's the holy grail of Pokemon games. It could have provided some improvements to the storyline and there were a few things I was hoping to see too, but I have my doubts that an actual Z game would have been as good as the Z game people had been imagining for themselves all these years.

 

[Pandora]

how can i choose a game that doesn't even exist?
Also i'm happy with Sun and Moon. They can complete the plot roles and continue the story in the post game or even in the main walkthroug.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Well, I look at it like this: ORAS was a remake of a twelve-year-old game from an ancient, incompatible system. Z, had it come out in 2015, would have been a remake of a two-year-old game from the exact same system as its still-available predecessors. So from that perspective - as much as I would have liked to see an improved/expanded storyline and how Zygarde would have played into it - I'd say that I would rather have ORAS, easily.

Z would have been a third version, not a remake since third versions are extended versions of the first two main series. Remakes are updated versions of games that are no longer compatible for the current game system, FRLG, HGSS and ORAS are remakes. Emerald and Platinum are third versions. In the end, ORAS was picked and is here to stay.

 

[Fig]

They're basically the same thing, though - FRLG (Sevii), HGSS (Mount Silver expansion, restoration of lots of Kanto location to Gen I standards, expansion of the legendary plots) and ORAS (Delta Episode, tweaks to the main storyline) all significantly expand the story and game of the original., so you can't say only third versions expand the original games.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I don't consider remakes and third versions the same. Remakes are made when older games are not compatible with the current game console. FRLG were made due to the fact you couldn't trade pokemon from RBY and GSC to Ruby and Sapphire. HGSS made Lugia and Ho-oh available again as well as bringing back the Johto region since GSC are not compatible. ORAS was made because of the fans demand I think and because none of the Hoenn games are compatibleRLG

Third versions are made in the same generation and console as the first two games. You can trade pokemon between R/S and Emerald. The same goes for DP and Platinum. Remakes are made on different consoles and they made after several years had pass. Third versions are usually made a year or two.

 

[Fig]

Well, of course there's that difference. But fundamentally, they're both expended versions of the original game, adding extra content and improving the old plot. The only difference is that one is done a few generations later (and thus has a lot more to add to the original games) and the other...isn't.

I mean, Emerald and ORAS, they'Re basically both "third versions" of RS - that is to say, expended re-release of the original Ruby and Sapphire. Just one of them in addition to extra game content add several hundred new Pokémon, the physical/special attacks split, and half a dozen other things that were never in the originals.

This is what makes remakes far superior to third versions. Sure, we have to wait a little longer to get our expended re-release, but when we do get it, it comes with far more additional content than a normal third version would have (all the content from the past three generations or so).

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Seeing Hoenn in Gen VI's 3D graphics was a very nice thing, so I'm happy we got ORAS over Z...And it finally put an end to the HOENN CONFIRMED memes.

 

[Boss1708]

And since ORAS went undid almost everything that I liked about Emerald changes (on top of doing things that I simply wasn't a big fan of, like the new character designs, increased railroading in story, execution of the Delta scenario, etc.), it wasn't even a satisfying revisit to me. The new features and better defined characters were nice, but I ultimately just wound up being bitter about everything they didn't do.

I know what you mean, and I have to kinda agree with you. As someone who only played Emerald, not the original RS, every Emerald feature missing in ORAS, big or small, was like a slap in the face for me as an Emerald fan. Only initially though.

Because one thing I have noticed with ORAS, is that, instead of just pretending those Emerald additions don't exist, they are mentioned ingame, like the Frontier and Match Call app, or Wallace becoming Champion. All are implied to take place IN THE FUTURE.

All of this kinda point towards the conclusion that Emerald is not an alternative version to RS, it is a sequel. At least in the Megaverse it is. This is the most satisfying reason I can think of as of why a good portion of the Emerald content is not in ORAS: it simply hasn't occurred yet. The BF hasn't been constructed, the Match Call function hasn't been developed, etc.

Also, for some Emerald locations that open up in Emerald's postgame: Desert Underpass hasn't been excavated yet, Mirage Tower hasn't shown up yet, Steven's room in Meteor Falls hasn't been excavated yet, Artisan Cave haven't been discovered yet.

Also, considering that ORAS pulled up the AU theory, those Emerald locations, features, etc, might not get discovered at all in Mega Hoenn, and other new locations are discovered instead (mirage spots, new legendary caves, etc), and new features/apps are invented instead (Dex Nav, Mega Bracelet, etc).

People like comparing Crystal and Emer. and saying how HGSS did add most of Crystal's content, while ORAS didn't add as much of Emerad's content, but ORAS kinda shows that Emerald is more of a sequel "a la BW2", and not a third version like Crystal. Crystal is just GS with an expanded role for Suicune, and a Battle Tower. Emerald is a lot more.

Basically, HGSS with Crystal content still feels completely like GS remakes, while ORAS with all of Emerald's content wouldn't feel like a RS remake anymore, but as an Emerald remake only.

The real question is why didn't Game Freak remake Emerald instead of RS, but that's a different question and isn't ORAS's problem anyway.

Also, seeing how GF are purposely treating Emerald like a sequel, it wouldn't make sense to remake a sequel instead of the original.

Like remaking BW2 would be better than remaking BW, as it it has a lot more content added, but remaking the sequels instead of the originals wouldn't make any sense.

Not to mention, A LOT more people played RS and BW, than Emerald and BW2, respectively.

Edit: Yes, I know Emerald isn't an actual sequel, but it is closer to a sequel than a simple third version in terms of content.

 

[Icy Wind]

Also, seeing how GF are purposely treating Emerald like a sequel, it wouldn't make sense to remake a sequel instead of the original.

Okay no. A sequel is a game where the events take place sometime after the original game and the events of the game correlate to the originals. Emerald was just a simple third version to RS with a few tweaks to the storyline and content and it's not even close to being a sequel. If Emerald referenced ruby and saphire's events and explicity said it took place sometime after them, then yes, it would have been a "sequel". Otherwise, there is absolutely nothing that points it to be a sequel beyond those little easter eggs in ORAS.

 

[Boss1708]

Okay no. A sequel is a game where the events take place sometime after the original game and the events of the game correlate to the originals. Emerald was just a simple third version to RS with a few tweaks to the storyline and content and it's not even close to being a sequel.

I am fully aware of what a sequel is. My point is that Game Freak are purposely pushing Emerald's events (the construction of the Battle Frontier, Juan taking over Wallace's gym and Wallace becoming Champion, etc) as something that takes place AFTER the events of RS/ORAS. Just like a sequel. That's all I meant.

 

[conqueror]

Of course ORAS. Hoenn region definately deserved a 3DS remake. And finally the remakes were very well made. Z would be nothing more than XY plus few extra features.

 

[mel123]

Z, because OR/AS felt premature. X/Y too were premature (there were loose ends that needed to be tied up), but OR/AS had a new generation on the horizon (e.g. Gen. 7). I think X/Y had untapped potential (see Zygarde plot and Sundial formation), warranting a Z or some kind of third game. OR/AS would have had the opportunity to shine fully (e.g. with the inclusion of the Battle Frontier) in a next generation. I'm sure they wouldn't have felt premature had Game Freak not a) whitewashed them; and b) been whitewashing the franchise overall.

There are many factors that need to be considered (e.g. my age and how I am increasingly picky and relentless about Pokemon's progression/advancement as a franchise -- do fans want regression (see simplification/whitewashing in OR/AS) or evolution (see radical features brought by X/Y)?), but Z is my choice. X/Y too were premature, but this prematurity could have been fixed had Game Freak not embarked on a simplification/whitewashing mission. OR/AS was brought on the bandwagon, mere filler fodder.

 

[Esserise]

I am fully aware of what a sequel is. My point is that Game Freak are purposely pushing Emerald's events (the construction of the Battle Frontier, Juan taking over Wallace's gym and Wallace becoming Champion, etc) as something that takes place AFTER the events of RS/ORAS. Just like a sequel. That's all I meant.

You know, this is something that I kind of noticed about Emerald and Platinum. While it is clear that, in terms of in-universe chronology, they simply overwrite the original pairs, they frame the differences from those pairs in a sort of a meta-sequel sense. The most obvious example in RS/Emerald's case is Steven and Wallace; saying in Emerald that Wallace used the be the Sootopolis Gym Leader until "something came up" and he replaced Steven, who used to be the Champion, doesn't make any sense unless they have already portrayed them in those roles elsewhere (in this instance, RS). So while Emerald technically just overwrites RS, it still uses details from those games to contextualize its own story, somewhat. Platinum does this to a smaller extent, with the region becoming colder than it was in DP, and the references to Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf being able to balance only one of the Spacetime dragons (which we witnessed in DP). And Charon, with Mars slipping up and saying that Team Galactic only has three Commanders, and then correcting herself and saying that Charon is a new recruit. Again, in-universe, DP didn't happen - Platinum just took their place. But in a metatextual sense, Platinum imposes this slight sense of chronology over its relationship with DP.

GS and Crystal didn't really do this, as I recall - probably because there just wasn't as much to work with.

But with that in mind, I think it's interesting that they did decide to assimilate the events of Emerald into the in-universe chronology, but instead of integrating them directly into ORAS like they did with Crystal in HGSS, they positioned them, as you say, as future events. So that relationship between RS and Emerald remains intact and is actually *more* firmly established within the narrative than it was before.

Personally, I think Emerald only really had a couple of significant features that it could have offered ORAS, and one of them was something that we were never going to get anyway. But, stuff like the Desert Underpass is pretty much negligible. I don't see how anybody can seriously argue that the gameplay is negatively affected in any notable way by not having one long, barren hallway to walk through. It's no real loss.

 

[Boss1708]

You know, this is something that I kind of noticed about Emerald and Platinum. While it is clear that, in terms of in-universe chronology, they simply overwrite the original pairs, they frame the differences from those pairs in a sort of a meta-sequel sense. The most obvious example in RS/Emerald's case is Steven and Wallace; saying in Emerald that Wallace used the be the Sootopolis Gym Leader until "something came up" and he replaced Steven, who used to be the Champion, doesn't make any sense unless they have already portrayed them in those roles elsewhere (in this instance, RS). So while Emerald technically just overwrites RS, it still uses details from those games to contextualize its own story, somewhat. Platinum does this to a smaller extent, with the region becoming colder than it was in DP, and the references to Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf being able to balance only one of the Spacetime dragons (which we witnessed in DP). And Charon, with Mars slipping up and saying that Team Galactic only has three Commanders, and then correcting herself and saying that Charon is a new recruit. Again, in-universe, DP didn't happen - Platinum just took their place. But in a metatextual sense, Platinum imposes this slight sense of chronology over its relationship with DP.

GS and Crystal didn't really do this, as I recall - probably because there just wasn't as much to work with.

But with that in mind, I think it's interesting that they did decide to assimilate the events of Emerald into the in-universe chronology, but instead of integrating them directly into ORAS like they did with Crystal in HGSS, they positioned them, as you say, as future events. So that relationship between RS and Emerald remains intact and is actually *more* firmly established within the narrative than it was before.

Personally, I think Emerald only really had a couple of significant features that it could have offered ORAS, and one of them was something that we were never going to get anyway. But, stuff like the Desert Underpass is pretty much negligible. I don't see how anybody can seriously argue that the gameplay is negatively affected in any notable way by not having one long, barren hallway to walk through. It's no real loss.

You have explained exactly what I meant, but way better than I did. This is exactly what I mean.

Yes, my point is basically this:

The events of Gold/ Silver, and the events of Crystal, completely overlap with each other, making it easy to integrate both of them in HGSS. In other words, Crystal doesn't contradict GS in any way.

While the events of Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald contradict each other, meaning that GF had to choose whether to remake one or the other. And obviously, they chose the original games, RS, which were played by twice as many people as Emerald and therefore were way more demanded for a remake than Emerald. And the timeline was established in such a way that both continue to be cannon.

As for the Emerald locations, like Desert Underpass or Artisan Cave, they are obviously not important from a gameplay perspective. I was just trying to explain their absence from an in- Universe point of view. It doesn't make sense that a few caves suddenly"disappear" from Hoenn between Gen III and VI. But placing ORAS before Emerald in the timeline, solves this issue.

 

[Silktree]

Let's be honest: Game Freak could have easily made Wallace the post-game Champion and added the Battle Frontier without contradicting anything significant from RS. Referring to those events as happening in the future was just an excuse. Likewise for the Match Call and gym leader rematches.

Technically, they could have also incorporated Groudon and Kyogre's battle into the post-game, but they chose to do something new instead. That decision was nice enough.

 

[TouyaShiro]

Technically, they could have also incorporated Groudon and Kyogre's battle into the post-game, but they chose to do something new instead. That decision was nice enough.

In what way, exactly? If you mean Emerald style, then I'd only imagine that would happen if it was just a single version instead of two, otherwise how can you incorporate the fight into the postgame of Oras if most people have actually chosen to just CATCH the damn thing?

 

[Silktree]

In what way, exactly? If you mean Emerald style, then I'd only imagine that would happen if it was just a single version instead of two, otherwise how can you incorporate the fight into the postgame of Oras if most people have actually chosen to just CATCH the damn thing?

They could have done something similar to B2W2 where Kyurem isn't catchable in the first encounter. Then the other team would have made their move in the post-game and the mascot would have fought back, thus recreating the Emerald battle.

Think of how Groudon was encountered first in Emerald, but it took some time before the climax happened.

 

[TouyaShiro]

I dunno, man. Would pulling a Dennis really be favourable from both a story perspective AND a gameplay perspective, considering the Cave of Origin itself doesn't exactly have anyone but you roaming in it when you first encounter them? (You're also literally climbing the back of the respective Primal with the power of the opposite orb to protect you... Do you mean to say that the orb you're given would have to be stolen?)

I must ask, what was the reception like to that prevention of capture? And do you think it would sit well - especially with Primal Reversion within grasp of the player should the catch be successful - to deny the player the chance to use that power until the POSTGAME?

Oh, and one more thing to ask. How do you then explain Mega Rayquaza?