KatsumiChris1991
Team Rocket Agent
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2010
- Messages
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You can still be "girly" and be able to have Pokemon battles
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Serena has more experience in showcases than battles though. Ash shouldn't have any problems with this battle but something tells me that the writers are gonna make it so that she suddenly has battle experience when the battle starts.
That would really irritate me and prove my point how bias and poorly written the XY series wasSerena has more experience in showcases than battles though. Ash shouldn't have any problems with this battle but something tells me that the writers are gonna make it so that she suddenly has battle experience when the battle starts.
There is no canon reason for her insistence of letting Ash and Clemont do all the battling, but that's pretty much all we've gotI hate that excuse of Serena being "too girly" to battle. It ruined her development
I wanted her to have a Rhyhorn so badly, and raising it till it's a RhyperiorI really feel like Serena's problems like having practically no battles under her belt come from how weirdly gendered XY as a whole was. Have a career/goal based entirely around looking nice and having nothing to do with battling (ie the main "tough" part of the franchise)? Only let girls do it. Have the big climax of the last big arc involve battling a giant, world-threatening mecha? Leave the two main girls out of it and have them stand back and watch helplessly. Biggest gathering of the top trainers around the Kalos region to battle one another in a sports-like bracket? Only have one girl in it (and be a throwaway character at that). Honestly with how gendered everything was this series they missed out on the biggest opportunity to drive home the point that "femininity =/= weak".
The point I'm trying to make is that had Serena been in any other series, she probably would have seen more battles (and Performances would probably have them too). Why they decide to have what looks to be her sendoff episode center around a battle when most of the rest of her story had nothing to do with them is beyond me. Why not have it be about Ryhorn racing? At the very least I hope she decides to go challenge the 8 Kalos gyms, or really any region's gyms while still doing Performances on the side.
I really feel like Serena's problems like having practically no battles under her belt come from how weirdly gendered XY as a whole was. Have a career/goal based entirely around looking nice and having nothing to do with battling (ie the main "tough" part of the franchise)? Only let girls do it. Have the big climax of the last big arc involve battling a giant, world-threatening mecha? Leave the two main girls out of it and have them stand back and watch helplessly. Biggest gathering of the top trainers around the Kalos region to battle one another in a sports-like bracket? Only have one girl in it (and be a throwaway character at that). Honestly with how gendered everything was this series they missed out on the biggest opportunity to drive home the point that "femininity =/= weak".
The point I'm trying to make is that had Serena been in any other series, she probably would have seen more battles (and Performances would probably have them too). Why they decide to have what looks to be her sendoff episode center around a battle when most of the rest of her story had nothing to do with them is beyond me. Why not have it be about Ryhorn racing? At the very least I hope she decides to go challenge the 8 Kalos gyms, or really any region's gyms while still doing Performances on the side.
The "girly" part is NOT the reason for her having less battles. Her goal was simply meant to be not battle-oriented. People seriously need to stop stigmatizing "not battling" as a sin when it's coupled with being "girly". If we put Serena in real life, she's just someone who doesn't do sports/martial arts and wants to be a pastry chef/fashion designer/model in the future. There's nothing wrong with that.You can still be "girly" and be able to have Pokemon battles
I also am a fan of the ship but that'd be fucking hilariousI would find it SO funny if Pikachu beat the living hell out of Braxien. Then Serena's crush on Ash would just collapse because he beat up Braxien and wouldn't stop. Basically, destroy the any living remains of the shipping...although I am an Amourshipper.
It wouldn't make much sense to have her last battle the DAY before she leaves.If it was not yet confirmed that this was Serena's final episode, then why is everyone here acting like it was a fact clarified in the summary?
It's really sad to see that people still hate Serena for not being a battler - I've said this a million times, but the pokemon world has a ton a jobs that don't involve battling and being a performer is just one of them. Being "girly" doesn't have anything to do with not being a good battler. Her goal was simply not related to battles.
"But they could have done all of her stories and still make her a good battler -" and then hear people complain she's too perfect and good at everything and practically a Mary Sue? Geez
You are mixing things up. Yes, Trainers can choose to dedicate themselves to "jobs" that do not involve Pokémon battles. We have seen that way back in the original series with Tracey, a Pokémon Watcher, whose goal was to observe wild Pokémon, sketch them, and learn more about their behaviors in the process.
After the original series, we got Stylists, who design clothes for Pokémon and enter fashion shows with them, and Connoisseurs, who evaluate the bond between Trainers and Pokémon and give advice on how to further develop that bond. A Performer is really just another Trainer that decided to focus on different aspects of Pokémon instead of battling.
Does that mean Performers have to be so inexperienced when it comes to Pokémon battles? The answer is no. As much as I hate Pokémon Showcases, I don't really have a problem with the lack of battles, but I do have a problem with Serena not being a battler. Every Trainer, regardless of their occupation, has to battle. That's how they add new Pokémon to their teams, after all.
Although being a Connoisseur has little to do with battles, Cilan entered as many battle tournaments as he possibly could. Paris, the famous Pokémon Stylist who served as one of the judges of the Hearthome Collection, was shown to be able to fend for herself, protecting her mentor Hermione and commanding Lopunny to wreck Team Rocket's machine. These are Trainers who do not have battles as part of their goal, but they are capable battlers.
Serena is already considered a Mary Sue so I don't really see the issue. And honestly, if her whole journey had played out differently, she could excel in battles without entering Mary Sue territory. We may have different concepts of what a Mary Sue is so I want to clarify. For me, a Mary Sue/Gary Stu is a character that embodies perfection. They rarely do anything wrong and when they do is not their fault (see Alain for reference, who was working for the bad guys unknowingly). They are super talented because they were born with an extraordinary set of skills. It's not about being good at several activities through hard work, is about being too good with little to no effort through magic dust.
You are saying that Serena is good at too many activities already and adding battles would put her in a pedestal as the perfect girl. However, I believe Serena could be a decent battler in addition to being a good Performer without people calling her a Mary Sue if she had faced real troubles during her journey. You see Dawn is good at:
And the list goes on and on. However, Dawn struggled/failed in every activity I mentioned here.
- making Poffins;
- coming up with combinations;
- training her Pokémon;
- showing off her Pokémon;
- designing clothes;
- getting along with another Trainer in Tag Battles.
Be it things that lasted for one episode, like the Poffin and the Tag Battle stuff, or things that were spread out in multiple episodes, such as Mamoswine not listening to her and her losses at the Performance Stage, Dawn struggled. She is pretty good at a lot of things, but we know how she got there. Can we say the same about Serena? The girl who learned about Showcases one day and surpassed her rival Shauna on the other. The short answer: NO.
- her Pokémon initially hated her Poffins (which weren't bad per se, but she had to find the perfect recipe);
- she had trouble to master several combinations (Thomas humiliated her for it in Teaching the Student Teacher!);
- her Pokémon wouldn't listen to her commands (Buizel and Mamoswine) or she had to adapt to their style (Togekiss);
- she failed to advance to the Contest Battles twice in a row;
- she was troubled with what she should do for the Hearthome Collection while Ash was all done;
- she got into a fight with Ash after they lost to twin brothers but they worked it out and went for revenge.
The long answer: Serena never had any real trouble. She caught two Pokémon who were already really good dancers. Her Poké Puffs were always liked by everyone. The theme in which she failed (Pokémon Styling) never appeared again (because having two barely different Poké Puff themes and a Rhyhorn theme was more important). No Pokémon disobeyed her. No Pokémon had trouble to perfect a move. No rival was a challenge to her. Everything was too easy for Serena. She was good at performing since she learned about it. IIRC Shauna once said she was doing a research on how to appeal to viewers, look cute or something while Serena got the attention of former Kalos Queen Palermo by simply cutting her hair.
What were the challenges faced by Serena? Fennekin stumbling and falling because the ribbon was too long, Jessie bumping into her in the hallway and ripping her dress, and Eevee getting lost at a Showcase theater. That's why she is considered a Mary Sue. Had Serena actually struggled to achieve a good reputation as a Performer, to raise a team of good dancers, to deal with the many rivals she encountered along the way, things would be completely different and battles could be added to her list of skills and no one would think she is a Mary Sue.
This is why the Serena character completely disappointed me. I thought she was going to be better. I still find May and Dawn more interesting than her.Just to be clear, saying that a character is too girly to be a decent battler is kind of insulting. The way people often use the term girly is already pretty problematic as it is, mainly in that it's used in place of bad or weak, but claiming that a character is too girly to be a battler adds more layers to that issue. Being "girly" does not mean that a character cannot be a good battler. The two aren't even connected and it does come off as offensive to claim otherwise. I just don't want that part of the discussion to get out of hand because of how easily it could offend people.
Besides that, I don't think that it's a bad thing that Serena didn't really battle much during the course of the series. Her goal didn't involve battling and she was never really into it all that much to begin with, so I don't think it's a problem that she hasn't battled frequently. It is strange when you consider that battling is a core aspect of the series and franchise in general, but at the same time, it's kind of refreshing in a way. Not everyone in the Pokemon world would be interested in battling and we have seen other goals that don't revolve around battling as well. It would have been nice to see Serena battle a bit more since she wasn't too bad when she did have traditional battles, but I don't think it's a major deal breaker for me. I think it also helps that the show never went out of its way to claim that Serena was still a really good/strong trainer in spite of battling so infrequently. If they had gone in that direction, it would have bothered me more, but as it is, it's not a huge issue for me. Compared to all of the other problems I have with Serena and her arc, not battling too often is really low on that list.
Does that mean every single person -regardless or jobs- has to be a battler if they own pokemon by default? Because if I remember, there aren't any legal problems that have to do with not preferring battles, or not choosing to battle. Performers don't have to be bad and inexperienced in battles - it is the Performer's choice to be inexperienced or not. Saying that Performers shouldn't be inexperienced in battles is like accussing someone with a job unrelated to sports saying, "even if you have a job that doesn't require you to play any sports you must play sports". It's forcing something onto that they might not prefer.Does that mean Performers have to be so inexperienced when it comes to Pokémon battles? The answer is no. As much as I hate Pokémon Showcases, I don't really have a problem with the lack of battles, but I do have a problem with Serena not being a battler.
It's not a necessity. Battles can be avoided if one doesn't want to do so. The games force us to battle, like it or not, but the anime world isn't the same. Alain brought up the line of "battling when two eyes meet" but that applies because he's made it his job to fight trainers, especially ones with Mega Evolving pokemon. He doesn't go picking fights with every single person just because he's a trainer. Battles aren't a necessity.Every Trainer, regardless of their occupation, has to battle.
She totally struggled. She had to win over Pancham's loyalty. She had to help Eevee overcome her shyness (which really was a struggle). Heck, it was just a struggle to figure out what she wanted to do.You are mixing things up. Yes, Trainers can choose to dedicate themselves to "jobs" that do not involve Pokémon battles. We have seen that way back in the original series with Tracey, a Pokémon Watcher, whose goal was to observe wild Pokémon, sketch them, and learn more about their behaviors in the process.
After the original series, we got Stylists, who design clothes for Pokémon and enter fashion shows with them, and Connoisseurs, who evaluate the bond between Trainers and Pokémon and give advice on how to further develop that bond. A Performer is really just another Trainer that decided to focus on different aspects of Pokémon instead of battling.
Does that mean Performers have to be so inexperienced when it comes to Pokémon battles? The answer is no. As much as I hate Pokémon Showcases, I don't really have a problem with the lack of battles, but I do have a problem with Serena not being a battler. Every Trainer, regardless of their occupation, has to battle. That's how they add new Pokémon to their teams, after all.
Although being a Connoisseur has little to do with battles, Cilan entered as many battle tournaments as he possibly could. Paris, the famous Pokémon Stylist who served as one of the judges of the Hearthome Collection, was shown to be able to fend for herself, protecting her mentor Hermione and commanding Lopunny to wreck Team Rocket's machine. These are Trainers who do not have battles as part of their goal, but they are capable battlers.
Serena is already considered a Mary Sue so I don't really see the issue. And honestly, if her whole journey had played out differently, she could excel in battles without entering Mary Sue territory. We may have different concepts of what a Mary Sue is so I want to clarify. For me, a Mary Sue/Gary Stu is a character that embodies perfection. They rarely do anything wrong and when they do is not their fault (see Alain for reference, who was working for the bad guys unknowingly). They are super talented because they were born with an extraordinary set of skills. It's not about being good at several activities through hard work, is about being too good with little to no effort through magic dust.
You are saying that Serena is good at too many activities already and adding battles would put her in a pedestal as the perfect girl. However, I believe Serena could be a decent battler in addition to being a good Performer without people calling her a Mary Sue if she had faced real troubles during her journey. You see Dawn is good at:
And the list goes on and on. However, Dawn struggled/failed in every activity I mentioned here.
- making Poffins;
- coming up with combinations;
- training her Pokémon;
- showing off her Pokémon;
- designing clothes;
- getting along with another Trainer in Tag Battles.
Be it things that lasted for one episode, like the Poffin and the Tag Battle stuff, or things that were spread out in multiple episodes, such as Mamoswine not listening to her and her losses at the Performance Stage, Dawn struggled. She is pretty good at a lot of things, but we know how she got there. Can we say the same about Serena? The girl who learned about Showcases one day and surpassed her rival Shauna on the other. The short answer: NO.
- her Pokémon initially hated her Poffins (which weren't bad per se, but she had to find the perfect recipe);
- she had trouble to master several combinations (Thomas humiliated her for it in Teaching the Student Teacher!);
- her Pokémon wouldn't listen to her commands (Buizel and Mamoswine) or she had to adapt to their style (Togekiss);
- she failed to advance to the Contest Battles twice in a row;
- she was troubled with what she should do for the Hearthome Collection while Ash was all done;
- she got into a fight with Ash after they lost to twin brothers but they worked it out and went for revenge.
The long answer: Serena never had any real trouble. She caught two Pokémon who were already really good dancers. Her Poké Puffs were always liked by everyone. The theme in which she failed (Pokémon Styling) never appeared again (because having two barely different Poké Puff themes and a Rhyhorn theme was more important). No Pokémon disobeyed her. No Pokémon had trouble to perfect a move. No rival was a challenge to her. Everything was too easy for Serena. She was good at performing since she learned about it. IIRC Shauna once said she was doing a research on how to appeal to viewers, look cute or something while Serena got the attention of former Kalos Queen Palermo by simply cutting her hair.
What were the challenges faced by Serena? Fennekin stumbling and falling because the ribbon was too long, Jessie bumping into her in the hallway and ripping her dress, and Eevee getting lost at a Showcase theater. That's why she is considered a Mary Sue. Had Serena actually struggled to achieve a good reputation as a Performer, to raise a team of good dancers, to deal with the many rivals she encountered along the way, things would be completely different and battles could be added to her list of skills and no one would think she is a Mary Sue.