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Anime & Manga General Discussion

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So the leak is real, who'da thought! One Kalos League redemption coming up!

Anyway, I don't really have a lot to say that other people haven't covered already except this: there's gonna be a lot of species repeats here, which is highly unusual for the anime, unless the writers make a mass revamp of just about everybody's teams. Everyone's already joked about Charizard getting to appear twice, but that's far from the only Pokemon that we might potentially see in multiple teams. And actually, Charizard even has the potential to appear in up to four teams due to Ash and Lance; the former might end up bringing his reserves which will very likely include Charizard if he does, and the latter has frequently used Charizard in his various game teams (granted, Lance is by far the least likely to use a Charizard due to the anime's tendency to alter game characters' teams, but even so, three Charizards in the Masters' Eight teams is quite a lot).

Other repeated species are: Metagross (both Steven and Alain have one), Dragonite (Ash, Iris, and Lance all have one. And unlike Charizard I highly doubt Lance's Dragonite is gonna get dropped from his team, since it's his signature... even if the anime seems to have decided that Red Gyarados is now his ace), and possibly Garchomp (if Iris's Gible has evolved all the way). Lucario could have been on this list too, but I'm fairly certain that Kommo-o is going to act as its stand-in on Cynthia's team so that Ash's Lucario can be the only one in the Master Eight ranks.

Granted, if none of the battles are gonna be full until the one against Leon, the issue of species repeats isn't as strong, but still, I just think it's amusing and thought I'd comment on it due to how rare it is for the anime to have multiple trainers with the same Pokemon at the same time unless it's an episode-specific plot point.

Anyway, here are my predicitons for how the Masters Eight tournament is gonna go:
Round 1:
  • Ash vs Alain- Ash wins
  • Leon vs Diantha- Leon wins
  • Iris vs Lance- Iris wins
  • Cynthia vs Steven- Cynthia wins
Round 2
  • Ash vs Cynthia- Ash wins
  • Leon vs Iris- Leon wins
Round 3
  • Ash vs Leon- Ash wins?
Some will possibly be upset at me for wanting Iris to get to Round 2, but I also want Ash to fight both Alain and Cynthia and for Leon to face off against opponents whose specialties don't have the disadvantage against his ace. I also don't want him to fight Lance again because that'd feel repetitive and unnecessary. This means that both Lance and Steven have to get eliminated in the first round by people who aren't Leon, and I thought Iris being the one to defeat Lance would be neat because of her Dragon Master goal.
 
Hidden Mew said:
Ash-Greninja finally defeating Mega Charizard X would create so much hype
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It will definitely break the internet in a good way if it happens. I'm sure the writers haven't forgotten the immense backlash they received from forcing Ash to lose to Alain in the Kalos League. There's only one reason I can see them bringing him back for and its not being canon fodder for Leon or someone.
 
Picardluke said:
Why would it matter if Ash beats a "fan favorite" like Cynthia? Ash beating Cynthia is exactly what most people are predicting or want to see, assuming the battle itself is written well. Why would it matter if she's a fan favorite in the fandom making that unlikely for Ash to battle her? It's also been foreshadowed in those ending montages multiple times.
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Because I'm not sure if a lot of people would be that excited for Ash to defeat a popular character like Cynthia. She is arguably the most popular Champion, so it's just hard for me to imagine Ash defeating her with that in mind. It's also a bit of a big assumption that the battle will be well written, especially with the problems people have with Ash's Journeys team. Maybe I'm just too used to how fans have put Cynthia on a huge pedestal for years, but I don't know how many people are really that excited for Ash to defeat Cynthia with his current team. If he was going to use his reserves, that would be a different story, but aside from maybe Greninja in his battle against Alain, I don't see Ash using any of his older Pokemon in these battles. Sure, it's been foreshadowed, so I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. I'm just less confident about Ash winning or how well they could pull off Ash defeating Cynthia.

Picardluke said:
Leon obviously has to be 6 on 6 so Ash can use his full team. The Cynthia fight will be semi-finals so it will likely be as well. I could see the first fight in the tournament being 3 on 3 though. Also I don't know why you're comparing this to earlier battles, obviously the final tournament will be given more prestige with longer battles the same way all the previous final battles in leagues do.

I have no idea why anyone wouldn't expect full battles for at least the semi-final and Leon fight. All they need are 2 eps for each.
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I already said that Ash vs. Leon is going to be a full battle. Semi-finals could also be a full battle, but I'm less sure about that since there have been fewer full battles in the past few series. I wasn't comparing this to earlier battles. I'm saying that because of how fast paced Journeys has been, not just with the PWC matches but in general, I don't see them having more than three-on-three battles for most of these Master Class battles. I could be wrong here and having more time for these battles would be more ideal. It would probably give them more of a chance to make these battles really shine as opposed to making them just last for one episode, but at the moment, I'm not confident that it will happen. I think it will depend on how they stretch out these battles between now and November.

A Wild Luxray said:
It will definitely break the internet in a good way if it happens. I'm sure the writers haven't forgotten the immense backlash they received from forcing Ash to lose to Alain in the Kalos League. There's only one reason I can see them bringing him back for and its not being canon fodder for Leon or someone.
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I'm sure that the immense backlash from the Kalos League is the only reason they brought back Alain. They know that getting a proper rematch and defeat will attract a ton of attention. Plus, Alain getting to the Master 8 makes perfect sense with how overpowered he is. Honestly, I still think that Ash defeating Alain will feel kind of hallow in a way. It won't really make up for the Kalos League, which is why I wasn't into the idea before and after the leak came out. That being said, it will still feel satisfying to see his broken Mega Charizard X finally lose, so I can't blame people for getting excited for the match in that regard.
 
Hidden Mew said:
Because I'm not sure if a lot of people would be that excited for Ash to defeat a popular character like Cynthia. She is arguably the most popular Champion, so it's just hard for me to imagine Ash defeating her with that in mind. It's also a bit of a big assumption that the battle will be well written, especially with the problems people have with Ash's Journeys team. Maybe I'm just too used to how fans have put Cynthia on a huge pedestal for years, but I don't know how many people are really that excited for Ash to defeat Cynthia with his current team. If he was going to use his reserves, that would be a different story, but aside from maybe Greninja in his battle against Alain, I don't see Ash using any of his older Pokemon in these battles. Sure, it's been foreshadowed, so I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. I'm just less confident about Ash winning or how well they could pull off Ash defeating Cynthia.
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I mean, people want Ash to battle and beat Cynthia and it's a match people wanted to see since the DP anime in 2010. What does her popularity have to do with that? Again assuming the battle is written well, why would anyone complain Ash would beat her? Only some Cynthia fanboys would take issue with it and why on earth would the writers care about that. Since when do the writers care what online fans think? Obviously Ash"s losses in leagues over 20 years prove they didn't care at least till recently.
Hidden Mew said:
I already said that Ash vs. Leon is going to be a full battle. Semi-finals could also be a full battle, but I'm less sure about that since there have been fewer full battles in the past few series. I wasn't comparing this to earlier battles. I'm saying that because of how fast paced Journeys has been, not just with the PWC matches but in general, I don't see them having more than three-on-three battles for most of these Master Class battles. I could be wrong here and having more time for these battles would be more ideal. It would probably give them more of a chance to make these battles really shine as opposed to making them just last for one episode, but at the moment, I'm not confident that it will happen. I think it will depend on how they stretch out these battles between now and November.


I'm sure that the immense backlash from the Kalos League is the only reason they brought back Alain. They know that getting a proper rematch and defeat will attract a ton of attention. Plus, Alain getting to the Master 8 makes perfect sense with how overpowered he is. Honestly, I still think that Ash defeating Alain will feel kind of hallow in a way. It won't really make up for the Kalos League, which is why I wasn't into the idea before and after the leak came out. That being said, it will still feel satisfying to see his broken Mega Charizard X finally lose, so I can't blame people for getting excited for the match in that regard.
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They have roughly 25 weeks till the end of the year. Either way I don't think Ash beating Alan will feel hollow. It may not be a league victory win, but he's still be beating the only league rival he ever got a rematch with.

Since it's an end of series tournament it's obvious they'll save the 6 on 6 battles for the end like they do every series. As I mentioned I could see the first round being 3 on 3, but not the semi-finals or Leon Match. The pacing of the series has nothing to do with a final tournament.
 
Honestly I think Ash losing to Alain in a regional league then defeating him in a world league is, in a way, just an extreme version of losing to his other rivals until the tournament has him defeat them. There's more time in-between them and it was probably never planned, of course, but what goes on behind the scenes doesn't really matter once the work is out.
(Somewhat oddly I was going to do something very similar in a fic at one point. Eerie coincidence.)
Actually I wouldn't entirely rule out the theory that the Kalos league outcome was changed at some point by higher ups and this might be the writers wanting a redo when the opportunity came up.
 
Picardluke said:
I mean, people want Ash to battle and beat Cynthia and it's a match people wanted to see since the DP anime in 2010. What does her popularity have to do with that? Again assuming the battle is written well, why would anyone complain Ash would beat her? Only some Cynthia fanboys would take issue with it and why on earth would the writers care about that. Since when do the writers care what online fans think? Obviously Ash"s losses in leagues over 20 years prove they didn't care at least till recently.
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People thought that Ash to battle Cynthia in DP, but people also thought that he was going to get in the Champion League right up until Tobias appeared or when Ash vs. Paul wasn't the final battle of the Sinnoh League. I don't think people were upset about that match not happening, at least compared to Ash not winning the Sinnoh League like they wanted. Her popularity just makes it hard for me to see her lose to Ash, especially when BD/SP made her more difficult too. I already explained why the assumption that the battle will be well written is a big one. I've seen plenty of people here express that Ash's Journeys team doesn't deserve to defeat Champions like Cynthia. I'm not talking about just Cynthia fanboys here. I just don't know if people are really that into the idea of Ash defeating Cynthia with his current team. People have been predicting it will happen, but that isn't the same as people being excited about the match. To be fair, I haven't seen a lot of excitement for Ash vs. Leon either and that has been guaranteed to happen since the start of Journeys, so maybe I'm just not seeing a lot of the hype in other places online for these battles.

Picardluke said:
They have roughly 25 weeks till the end of the year. Either way I don't think Ash beating Alan will feel hollow. It may not be a league victory win, but he's still be beating the only league rival he ever got a rematch with.
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The main reason I consider it hollow is mainly due to how people have called it a redemption for Greninja or a way to make up for the Kalos League. The idea of Ash finally defeating Alain like he should have done in XY is still a satisfying one, but I just don't think it's going to really mean anything beyond that.

Picardluke said:
Since it's an end of series tournament it's obvious they'll save the 6 on 6 battles for the end like they do every series. As I mentioned I could see the first round being 3 on 3, but not the semi-finals or Leon Match. The pacing of the series has nothing to do with a final tournament.
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I'd say that the pacing of the series has something to do with its final tournament. It makes it harder for me to believe that they'd take their time with these battles and provide more full battles if the series' pacing has always been too fast for its own good. It's not a guarantee of course. I'm just saying that it's harder for me to see them slowing down the pace for this Master 8 tournament when the series has always had a pacing problem.
 
What an exciting time to be a Pokémon fan! I haven't even been keeping up with the anime but I can't not watch Ash battle champions and see my childhood wishes fulfilled.

I really do hope Ash battles Cynthia. I was a prime-audience member during the DP anime/games, and I've always been fascinated by Cynthia's anime portrayal; every-time she was on screen I was always left wanting to see more of her. However I want to take a wild guess and say that I think Cynthia will actually face Ash in the finals instead of the second round. Don't think it'll actually happen, but I think there's a chance and I'm excited at the possibility.

I know that Ash vs Leon has been built up to for the whole run of JN, but just because it's been built up doesn't mean it has to happen last. I would love to see Ash beat Leon in round two but lose to Cynthia in the finals - this could pit Ash and Leon as rivals in the next series perhaps. or allow the writers to explore Leon losing his title while Ash maintains his rookie/ever-growing character status.

I could see another scenario too where instead of Ash battling Cynthia, he'll battle Steven or Lance in round 2 while Leon beats Cynthia, with Ash losing in the finals. This would would still make it possible for Cynthia to be stronger than Ash which would leave open speculation and a possible match in the future.

Didn't realize I was such a fan of Cynthia, but as a very infrequent viewer of the XY anime I just am less excited for Ash vs. Alain than most others.
 
Can’t believe that madman was right. Ig it’s a safe bet with all the champions tho. I’m pretty happy with the lineup, just a little bummed out about flint getting booted. My biggest hope is just seeing reserves tbh, Greninja’s probably coming so that’s a good sign. It’s the perfect time for other mons like Torterra or even Incineroar to have another round. Not to mention it makes Ash’s roster more exciting and give him the edge against the world’s strongest trainers

I’d also like for his companions, at least his major ones to watch his battle against Leon. Even on tv. It wouldn’t feel right without them imo
 
At this point, I've lost the very last specks of interest in Journeys. My investment is gone. Mine pasture of fucks is barren. This damned series has been adamantly rubbing me the wrong way far too much in these last few months and I cannot see any further point in taking the time out of my Fridays to keep up with it. I could find better things to do that day, this much has become ever more obvious with the passing of recent weeks.

Whomever Ash battles next, I know I won't give a single solitary shit. My one hope is that it's done quickly, akin to ripping off a bandaid, so I can see this farcical experiment put to bed and reach the hopefully greener pastures of the SV series.
 
Gengarzilla said:
At this point, I've lost the very last specks of interest in Journeys. My investment is gone. Mine pasture of fucks is barren. This damned series has been adamantly rubbing me the wrong way far too much in these last few months and I cannot see any further point in taking the time out of my Fridays to keep up with it. I could find better things to do that day, this much has become ever more obvious with the passing of recent weeks.

Whomever Ash battles next, I know I won't give a single solitary shit. My one hope is that it's done quickly, akin to ripping off a bandaid, so I can see this farcical experiment put to bed and reach the hopefully greener pastures of the SV series.
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I'm guessing you didn't like last episode?
 
Gengarzilla said:
At this point, I've lost the very last specks of interest in Journeys. My investment is gone. Mine pasture of fucks is barren. This damned series has been adamantly rubbing me the wrong way far too much in these last few months and I cannot see any further point in taking the time out of my Fridays to keep up with it. I could find better things to do that day, this much has become ever more obvious with the passing of recent weeks.

Whomever Ash battles next, I know I won't give a single solitary shit. My one hope is that it's done quickly, akin to ripping off a bandaid, so I can see this farcical experiment put to bed and reach the hopefully greener pastures of the SV series.
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Why are you so angry over Ash challenging champions? Judging by the tone of your post you sound offended.

Weddingbells said:
I'm guessing you didn't like last episode?
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During XY for some reason he and some others got angry that Ash's Greninja knocked down Diantha's Gardevoir in a practice battle claiming Ash was "too strong" and he shouldn't be able to do anything to a champions Pokémon.

Meanwhile it's obvious the gulf between Champions and regular trainers has been narrowed and the battle with Diantha had her caught off guard. For some reason Ash being portrayed as strong bothers some people yet these are the same people complaining that Ash lost leagues for 20 years or how he was handled in BW.
 
Picardluke said:
During XY for some reason he and some others got angry that Ash's Greninja knocked down Diantha's Gardevoir in a practice battle claiming Ash was "too strong" and he shouldn't be able to do anything to a champions Pokémon.

Meanwhile it's obvious the gulf between Champions and regular trainers has been narrowed and the battle with Diantha had her caught off guard. For some reason Ash being portrayed as strong bothers some people yet these are the same people complaining that Ash lost leagues for 20 years or how he was handled in BW.
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For whatever reason DP significantly powered up the Champions and Elite Four (compare Ash doing alright vs Agatha to the clobbering Flint gives him), and I think that being the series where they were most active (and I think the only one until Alola where they all appeared?) ingrained the idea of them being that strong in people's mind.
 
Theres just something... weird about Ash but with in universe fans. Enough fans in Alola because of the league to make the battle royale stadium thing packed, presumably plenty of fans because of him being in the master's eight (Ontop of the people in those stadiums who so cheer for everyone because they have no clue whats going on)
 
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