SwSh Dynamax: Thoughts, Feelings, or Concerns

[BlueWaves]

After looking at it conceptually, I've officially decided on my feelings for it: I HATE it.

I just don't get it. GameFreak stopped doing Megas because they didn't like that only select Pokemon could Mega Evolve. So they created Z-Moves so every Pokemon could have a power-up. But then they created Special Z-Moves that only a certain Pokemon could use, which was the same for Mega Evolution; and very reason they dumped it. And here, they are trying to same thing again. Any Pokemon can use Dynamax, but only certain Pokemon can use Gigantamax, and those with Gigantamax change form, abillities, and even moves. So much like Z-Moves and Megas, the stronger Pokemon with Dynamax /Gigantamax will most likely outshine the trashmons who can also use it; especially if Gigantamax provides the aforementioned changes.

The other problem I have is obtaining a Gigantamax, which is done via raid battles, which requires four trainers, which only one trainer capture. What's worse, the Pokemon that are obtained may not eeven have the potential to Gigantamax. WHY?! Are they trying to make our lives miserable? IV breeding is already tedious, now they have to add another layer to obtaining Gigantamax as well? That's also under assumption that they have IVs and Natures that are optimal, which they probably don't.

Sorry about the rant, I just had to rub that off my chest.

 

[Esserise]

The other problem I have is obtaining a Gigantamax, which is done via raid battles, which requires four trainers, which only one trainer capture.

That's not correct. Every Trainer who participates in the raid gets to try to capture the Pokémon.

What's worse, the Pokemon that are obtained may not eeven have the potential to Gigantamax. WHY?! Are they trying to make our lives miserable? IV breeding is already tedious, now they have to add another layer to obtaining Gigantamax as well? That's also under assumption that they have IVs and Natures that are optimal, which they probably don't.

For what it's worth, they have said that there are things in these games that will make it easier to have competitive-worthy Pokémon without needing to do lots of breeding.

 

[Phosphene]

That's not correct. Every Trainer who participates in the raid gets to try to capture the Pokémon.

But didn’t they say that only one of the four trainers will actually capture the Pokémon?

 

[Esserise]

But didn’t they say that only one of the four trainers will actually capture the Pokémon?

Nope. Rewatch the E3 gameplay. Once they defeat the Max Raid Pokémon, one of the hosts says that they all have a chance to capture it.

What "only one" of the four players can do is Dynamax their own Pokémon during the raid.

 

[Dizzard]

Overall I'm feeling really underwhelmed by the concept.

Conceptually it doesn't really seem that removed from Megas, so it kinda irks me that they're promoting it as the big feature for Sword and Shield when really the wild area is a far bigger departure for the series.

It kinda makes me feel like future generations are just going to revisit the same concept just with a different name and slightly different paint.

 

[Myth]

You know, I know the first complaint wasn't about Dynamax and Gigantamax being similar to Mega and Z-moves exactly, but about once again some Pokémon having advantages over others while using them.

But I have to say that's one of the things that has bothered me with these games so far. Most of the features shown are just reimaginations, restructurings or continuations of past ones. Using past generation starters games as examples, like BW, we have triple battles, rotation battles, the seasons system and many other things. XY was the first fully-3D game, introduced customization, plus things like the fairy type, mega evolutions (technically the first burst mechanic in the series), sky battles, inverse battles, amie and so on.

The big new features that SwSh presented so far were:

• Dynamax and Gigantamax, another burst mechanic;
• Max Raid Battles, that imo feels like Totem Battles with a cooperative mode attached;
• Poké Jobs, that seems like a new Pelago;
• V-Comm, the version of the online system every generation has;
• Customization, that is just a continuation;
• Pokémon Camp, that is the new Amie/Refresh;
• League Card, which in my opinion must have been inspired and used "assets" from Alola Photo Club.

Hopefully, there still a lot unrevealed. But, as was said, and I do agree, the Wild Area is the real big new revealed feature of these games so far, and maybe just coincidentally, it's also the feature I'm looking forward the most to try.

But I have to say that although I wasn't really expecting to have another burst mechanic for the third time in a row, I really liked Dynamax and Gigantamax. With the side effects of the Max movements (such as setting rain and terrain), the time limit of the transformation, and things like all the status moves being turned into 'Max Guard' while transformed (preventing stall), they seem to be much more balanced and fun than Megas and Z-moves ever were to me.

I also think it fit well with the games, Sword and Shield. Not only because of british giant legends, but also because of the super defense (Max Guard) vs super offensive (all offensive moves that have their power increased and are transformed into offensive Max moves) thing.

But while it can be balanced and fun, I do agree that it will not help less used Pokémon (with the exception of those who gain a Gigantamax), since the transformation limits one of the main things that differentiate them, their movements.

...The other problem I have is obtaining a Gigantamax, which is done via raid battles, which requires four trainers, which only one trainer capture. What's worse, the Pokemon that are obtained may not eeven have the potential to Gigantamax. WHY?! Are they trying to make our lives miserable? IV breeding is already tedious, now they have to add another layer to obtaining Gigantamax as well? ...

Oh, you're right, I had not thought of that. To ensure we will be able to use any main story Pokémon competitively, in addition to the current issues like natures etc, they need to introduce a way to make any potential Pokémon to reach their Gigantamax Form (if it has any). But as Esserise mentioned, they said they have something unrevealed that will help us with that. So hopefully they thought of everything, and not of natures only. It can just be an item like the ability capsule. I would name it "Gigantamax Elixir" and "Dynamax Elixir" , but we already have that name.

 

[Phosphene]

But I have to say that's one of the things that has bothered me with these games so far. Most of the features shown are just reimaginations, restructurings or continuations of past ones.

The big new features that SwSh presented so far were:

• Dynamax and Gigantamax, another burst mechanic;
• Max Raid Battles, that imo feels like Totem Battles with a cooperative mode attached;
• Poké Jobs, that seems like a new Pelago;
• V-Comm, the version of the online system every generation has;
• Customization, that is just a continuation;
• Pokémon Camp, that is the new Amie/Refresh;
• League Card, which in my opinion must have been inspired and used "assets" from Alola Photo Club.

I think this is one of the reasons why I'm not too keen on Gigantamax. They're just Z-moves and Megas combined; they're not refreshing enough. To be honest, I feel they were only added because GameFreak knew fans would be upset with the removal of Megas, especially since there are several fan favorite Pokémon, such as Flygon, that a lot of people wanted Mega evolutions for.

Max Raid battles are less Totem Battles with a co-op mode, and more just Pokémon GO raid battles with the word "Max" in front in my opinion. Still fits in with the whole not-new theme, even though it's technically something new to the core series.

I'd say League Cards, Poké Jobs, and Pokémon Camp are different enough from their predecessors that they're somewhat new and refreshing. At least their more refreshing than the GO tie-in.

 

[Myth]

I see. They said Max Raid battles weren't inspired by GO, but I got you meant they just remind you of. About Gigantamax and Dynamax, I liked them, but I do hope they take a break from burst mechanics in the next generation, it's getting repetitive.


Speaking of, what are your guesses for Gigantamax Forms? Not sure if it will be that of a big number (most likely not), but I thought of 44 species already.

 

[Esserise]

But I have to say that's one of the things that has bothered me with these games so far. Most of the features shown are just reimaginations, restructurings or continuations of past ones.

Well, people are always complaining about them dropping features. They can try to keep more and more of them on-board, but that's going to take its own development time, and it's harder to advertise something that people are already intimately familiar with. So giving whatever it is a new coat of paint probably helps. Plus, there's always been room for improvement with those features.

• Dynamax: Reworks and combines certain aspects of Megas and Z-Moves to make it more strategic
• Max Raid Battles: Actually I think you're totally sleeping on this one. Core Pokémon has never had a cooperative battling feature like this before. At most there's only been Multi Battles. It's "similar" to Totem Battles in the sense that yeah there's a big Pokémon with boosted stats, but there's a pretty fundamental difference between "1 against 2" and "4 against 1." And Totem Battles themselves were more a reworking of Gyms - there were only 7 that you would ever do (9 in USUM). Unlike Totems, Max Raids aren't a mandatory part of the progression, but they are repeatable and have incentives for doing many of them.
• Poké Jobs: Seems more developed than Pelago; certain Pokémon will be more adept at specific jobs whereas with Pelago they all just wandered around randomly. Plus it gives your Pokémon experience, so it's also got a bit of the Day Care worked into it.
• Y-Comm: (Okay actually there was nowhere to go but down from the PSS, so they inexplicably did and made the Festival Plaza, and this is just correcting that mistake as best they can on a one-screen system.)
• Customization: Options for clothes appear to be far more varied than they were in SM; we'll see how they stack up against XY
• Camp: I mean, the substantial changes from "pet your single Pokémon inside a box" seem pretty self-evident on this one
• League Cards: Surely it's more an advancement on Trainer Cards, no? In that regard it's a nice bit of extra customization but not really even a big thing in general.

Though aside from my disagreement about Max Raids, I do concur that the Wild Area is the most innovative thing so far in these games.

 

[Phosphene]

They said Max Raid battles weren't inspired by GO

They did? I'm kinda skeptical.

 

[Esserise]

They did? I'm kinda skeptical.

Here's what they said to Game Informer:

Ohmori: The initial concept of having cooperative battles against a Pokémon – the raid idea – came before raids were even implemented in Pokémon Go, but we saw Pokémon Go implement this raid feature and how popular it was for people to get together in the same space and enjoy these cooperative experiences. I think there was some influence like how in Pokémon Go, you don’t need to be a hardcore battler to enjoy the raid battles. It’s really easy to invite a friend. We wanted to have that element in Sword and Shield’s raid encounters as well.

 

[Myth]

Well, people are always complaining about them dropping features. They can try to keep more and more of them on-board, but that's going to take its own development time, and it's harder to advertise something that people are already intimately familiar with. So giving whatever it is a new coat of paint probably helps.

But the problem isn't about having these features, I would like them to keep them. The problem is having mostly these reimagined features only. Previous generation starter games introduced many innovative features and yet kept many of the "old" ones at the same time.

About development time, that can be a separate matter altogether for sure. I myself would rather they had not released USUM and LGPE, but focused all their energy and time on these games instead. But in any way, I'm not asking for an excessive number of features to be in the game. I'd just like to see, in addition to the ones we already know, that are mostly reimaginations of old ones, some more of totally new ones.

I'm not asking for anything different from what previous generation starter games did. For now, that is worth mentioning, we have Cooking (that I previously forgot of) and Wild Area only (and Max Raid Battles depending of your opinion on it). Hopefully they're saving some more stuff.

Max Raid Battles: Actually I think you're totally sleeping on this one. Core Pokémon has never had a cooperative battling feature like this before. At most there's only been Multi Battles. It's "similar" to Totem Battles in the sense that yeah there's a big Pokémon with boosted stats, but there's a pretty fundamental difference between "1 against 2" and "4 against 1." And Totem Battles themselves were more a reworking of Gyms - there were only 7 that you would ever do (9 in USUM). Unlike Totems, Max Raids aren't a mandatory part of the progression, but they are repeatable and have incentives for doing many of them.

I was exaclty referring to the concept of Boss Battles itself. I always said I liked what they did with Totems, and that I would like them to come back with them but themed for the new region. I had already thought it would be cool if we could play cooperatively with other players against them.

I do agree the gameplay aspect became quite different here, but the concept seems to be similiar to me. As I said, I even had already thought of something like that, I mean, it doesn't seem so distant to me. But we can agree to disagree here.

League Cards: Surely it's more an advancement on Trainer Cards, no? In that regard it's a nice bit of extra customization but not really even a big thing in general.

It has to do with the Trainer Card, obviously, yes. We can even see stars in it in the trailer. But it still reminds me a lot of Alola Photo Club, and it came right after it. Like, I would not doubt if they used some "assets" (such as pose rigs) from it for this new feature.

• Dynamax: Reworks and combines certain aspects of Megas and Z-Moves to make it more strategic
• Poké Jobs: Seems more developed than Pelago; certain Pokémon will be more adept at specific jobs whereas with Pelago they all just wandered around randomly. Plus it gives your Pokémon experience, so it's also got a bit of the Day Care worked into it.
• Y-Comm: (Okay actually there was nowhere to go but down from the PSS, so they inexplicably did and made the Festival Plaza, and this is just correcting that mistake as best they can on a one-screen system.)
• Customization: Options for clothes appear to be far more varied than they were in SM; we'll see how they stack up against XY

Camp: I mean, the substantial changes from "pet your single Pokémon inside a box" seem pretty self-evident on this one

Yes, my point wasn't that those features didn't change or improve on their supposed inspirations, because they did. I didn't say they were exactly the same. That wasn't my point.

Plus, there's always been room for improvement with those features.

I do agree. Like I said, my point wasn't to get rid of old features, but about the new features being mostly only reimaginations, restructurings or continuations of past ones. In addition to them, I would like to see more totally new features.

 

[Knightwolf09]

I think this is one of the reasons why I'm not too keen on Gigantamax. They're just Z-moves and Megas combined; they're not refreshing enough. To be honest, I feel they were only added because GameFreak knew fans would be upset with the removal of Megas, especially since there are several fan favorite Pokémon, such as Flygon, that a lot of people wanted Mega evolutions for.

Max Raid battles are less Totem Battles with a co-op mode, and more just Pokémon GO raid battles with the word "Max" in front in my opinion. Still fits in with the whole not-new theme, even though it's technically something new to the core series.

I'd say League Cards, Poké Jobs, and Pokémon Camp are different enough from their predecessors that they're somewhat new and refreshing. At least their more refreshing than the GO tie-in.

Refreshing enough? We don't need anything changing up the game more than it already has.

 

[Phosphene]

Refreshing enough? We don't need anything changing up the game more than it already has.

The game isn’t really all that changed though.

 

[Matleo]

Wait for the game before critic. Gen 4 remakes will give us new megas.
Till now we not know everything about G-max we had no comparence battle and dont saw how it would react to megas or z-moves.

They already have weaknes. Moves are not letting stal and change effects. Interesting how stats will change anf what hapens after switching or 3 turn limit.

 

[Phosphene]

Gen 4 remakes will give us new megas.

Megas... what a weird way to spell Gigantamax.

Jokes aside, I think gen 4 remakes giving us Megas is highly unlikely. GameFreak seems to like to have one main gimmick per generation. That's why only Z-moves, not Z-moves and Megas, have the focus in gen 7 and (most likely) one of the reasons why both Z-moves and Megas are not present in SwSh. USUM didn't give us new Megas--heck not even LGPE gave us new Megas, which I think is a pretty clear indicator that they're no longer the focus and therefore won't make a reappearance--they gave us new Z-moves.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that, in SM at least, not all Mega stones are available to purchase for BP as some could only be obtained through limited-time events, which is another nail in the coffin for Megas being in the second gen 8 pair in my opinion.

 

[toastghost]

To be honest, I think Gigantamaxing is interesting, but Dynamax just is boring and unoriginal.

 

[Matleo]

Megas... what a weird way to spell Gigantamax.

Jokes aside, I think gen 4 remakes giving us Megas is highly unlikely. GameFreak seems to like to have one main gimmick per generation. That's why only Z-moves, not Z-moves and Megas, have the focus in gen 7 and (most likely) one of the reasons why both Z-moves and Megas are not present in SwSh. USUM didn't give us new Megas--heck not even LGPE gave us new Megas, which I think is a pretty clear indicator that they're no longer the focus and therefore won't make a reappearance--they gave us new Z-moves.

Ultra sun and moon gave us them. Also most likely new onee need to be created. Gen 4 would be good to see how they could cope with each other if they want to.

 

[Phosphene]

Ultra sun and moon gave us them

Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon did not have new Megas.

 

[Knightwolf09]

Remember the good ol days when people thought megas were unoriginal or a ripoff of digimon? Now people dislike Dynamax or gigantamax for not being that said unoriginal feature.