Mafia Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Endgame - "Decisive Fire" ~ Mafia/Indep Win!

[GliscorMan]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

I know it was a bit dangerous, but what would you do if you had the most votes? Try to tie them!
If someone took theirs off, I would take mine off also, I said it enough already, I WAS NOT TRYING TO LYNCH YOU!

That's not exactly what it sounds like here:

... as the phase update is really soon and I have to somehow save myself, I have to tie the votes. Almost all of the people who currently have one vote are those with a jokevote. I will:

VOTE: Momoka

not really because I find her too suspicious, but out of all the people, she has at least a case going against her, Sharkshocker's post that is.

I really just saw this as you seeing the FoS (for this reason, that people seem to ignore how it was a question and not really an accusation) and a joke vote and picking that as your target. Although it does interest me as to why you picked Momoka when picking RS would appear to be a better move if you were trying to save yourself. Unless of course you're scumbuddies

It feels like there's a disconnect between "liability to the town" and "good vote candidate" as you'd expect that they should be lynched if they're hampering the town. Can you explain what you mean on that last part?

This was that original FoS. And I have to say, the reasoning behind voting for RS made more sense than sticking to this. You could've come up with your own thing, or even expounded on it. That would've been the better approach to making a no-lynch satisfying for me. But, as it is, you're the best bet right now.

 

[Feenie]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

Thank you for clarifying. I do feel that RS would need to be prodded more so it'd be easier to get reads on him and assigning his passiveness as being part of his meta doesn't excuse him from suspicion.

No problem, I was just a little worried that my point wasn't coming across well in my post about RainbowSkittles. It's probably a good thing that I clarified it. That's true, it's really no good for the game if you don't come in and add a bit more to the discussion, rather than just saying you will. I'll try not to rely on meta with him from this point on since it could be unreliable.

I know it was a bit dangerous, but what would you do if you had the most votes? Try to tie them!

Are you referring to RainbowSkittles here, since I think you were trying to tie the votes so he wouldn't be lynched?

If someone took theirs off, I would take mine off also, I said it enough already, I WAS NOT TRYING TO LYNCH YOU!
I am not really suspicious of you, but when it came to the four people that already had a vote, I thought that you were my best pick.

When you placed your vote on me you said I "had the best case going" for me. It just doesn't make much sense to me that you're saying you don't suspect me at all but then you'll say there is a case against me. Which wasn't even really a case, sharkshocker was only asking me to clarify what I meant about RainbowSkittles.

It's not really the fact that you put the vote on me, it's the fact that you're saying you did it for a no lynch, but then in your post you say it was because I had the best case against me which means that if the vote was removed on someone and the majority was on me-- you wouldn't have been completely against it. That's just what I'm sensing from your posts.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

Oh, I was not lynched *sigh* Thank you based Rabbit!
Also, @FinalArcadia; you should change the title, it still says Day 1.

I did not give a last-resort claim for a reason. I may give it later. For now, you should all know that just Clusiana knows of it.

I'm not sure what to think of Zexy right now. His first reasoning for placing a vote on Momoka (which caused a tie) was that because he felt that there was some basis to my suspicion but now he backpedals and claims it's mostly for the sake of causing the tie. I understand that he's forced on the defensive but it feels like he tried to curry my favor by agreeing with me then dropped it altogether.

I really just saw this as you seeing the FoS (for this reason, that people seem to ignore how it was a question and not really an accusation) and a joke vote and picking that as your target. Although it does interest me as to why you picked Momoka when picking RS would appear to be a better move if you were trying to save yourself. Unless of course you're scumbuddies

When you placed your vote on me you said I "had the best case going" for me. It just doesn't make much sense to me that you're saying you don't suspect me at all but then you'll say there is a case against me. Which wasn't even really a case, sharkshocker was only asking me to clarify what I meant about RainbowSkittles.

It's not really the fact that you put the vote on me, it's the fact that you're saying you did it for a no lynch, but then in your post you say it was because I had the best case against me which means that if the vote was removed on someone and the majority was on me-- you wouldn't have been completely against it. That's just what I'm sensing from your posts.

To all those that find the fact I voted Momoka most suspicious, let’s look back at my post please:

... as the phase update is really soon and I have to somehow save myself, I have to tie the votes. Almost all of the people who currently have one vote are those with a jokevote. I will:

VOTE: Momoka

not really because I find her too suspicious, but out of all the people, she has at least a case going against her, Sharkshocker's post that is.

As you can see, my only initial thought was “I have to tie the votes!” Then, I had to pick between four people with one vote. There was Rabbit, who hasn’t said much and had just one joke vote, Squall Leonhart, same, RainbowSkittles, who I did not vote because I defended him at the very beginning, and my defense of him is what started this all and Momoka, who had “at least a case going against her”, Sharkshocker’s FoS that is.

I think that if I picked RS, you would go: “He was defending him initially, yet now that he is in chopping block, he is willing to lynch him! SCUMMY!”. So, I feel like you are trying to force a lynch on me, and thus from those that voted me, I can see at least one of them being scum, if not two.

I would also like to point you at Clusiana! She had similar opinions with me early on, was active just like me and also did not place a serious vote, like me. Some differences I can see is that I was more into asking questions than her, and she did not mention meta (because she hasn’t played any games recently, maybe). Yet you did not focus on her at all, just on me. I’m not talking about the later parts of the day, I had too much attention for this to happen. But when the first votes where placed, why did you pick me over Clusiana?

@Rabbit; you are absolutely right. I had totally forgotten about it. Had to go back and check who I placed it on.

Unvote: Rabbit

But seriously. That sig. I nearly shit my pants.

You placed a joke vote early on, and your only activity later is to remove said vote.
You have done this in lots of recent games, and said neutrality was one of your traits in Ace Attorney Mafia, in which you were, well, mafia.
Don’t you have ANYTHING to say over what hapenned?

I know it was a bit dangerous, but what would you do if you had the most votes? Try to tie them!

Are you referring to RainbowSkittles here, since I think you were trying to tie the votes so he wouldn't be lynched?

Of course not, I am referring to myself!

 

[Clusiana]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

For now, you should all know that just Clusiana knows of it.

I can confirm this in case there was any doubt!

RainbowSkittles, who I did not vote because I defended him at the very beginning, and my defense of him is what started this all...

You didn't vote him because you defended him earlier, not because you thought they were towny? That kind of comes across as being too cautious and not wanting to contradict your previous behavior too badly, doesn't it? As in, like, you didn't want to seem like your opinions were fluctuating too much, when mafia generally has a hard time keeping their reads straight due to them knowing the mafia already and therefore not able to honestly scumhunt. And, I mean, after that contradiction in your defense earlier on that made everything worse for you, it makes sense for you to be overly cautious and not want to contradict yourself further, at least imo, so,,

and she did not mention meta (because she hasn’t played any games recently, maybe).

(fwiw, i try to never use meta ever, since it's been absolute hell in the past to me, since i'd always get recklessly bandwagoned after the most minor of scumtells just because i was most experienced, so of course the yakuzas would yak me, right? and it just plain sucks to be so unfairly biased against, whether they're correct or not, and i find it really unfair to judge based on history with the player regardless, because everyone should be held to the same standards, and, well, yeah.)

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

You didn't vote him because you defended him earlier, not because you thought they were towny? That kind of comes across as being too cautious and not wanting to contradict your previous behavior too badly, doesn't it? As in, like, you didn't want to seem like your opinions were fluctuating too much, when mafia generally has a hard time keeping their reads straight due to them knowing the mafia already and therefore not able to honestly scumhunt. And, I mean, after that contradiction in your defense earlier on that made everything worse for you, it makes sense for you to be overly cautious and not want to contradict yourself further, at least imo, so,,

Not just to not contradict myself, my initial defense for him still stands. I get town vibes from him, both before and now.

and i find it really unfair to judge based on history with the player regardless, because everyone should be held to the same standards, and, well, yeah.)

So, you don't like basing yourself on meta, but a contradiction over meta is okay?

 

[Clusiana]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

So, you don't like basing yourself on meta, but a contradiction over meta is okay?

The issue isn't so much that it was meta, but more that it was that you contradicted yourself really badly.

A large part of your defense was that this is your usual behavior, citing a few mafias in which you displayed such behavior, then went on to say that meta was pointless anyway, since mafia are supposed to conform to their town meta regardless. Which would mean that your entire meta defense was null and void, since you just said yourself that meta isn't valid. So, I mean, it doesn't really matter that you were talking about meta when you contradicted yourself, just that there was such a blatant contradiction at all.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

A large part of my defense... what were I supposed to defend back then? I askesd questions but did not vote someone. I call it careful scumhunting.
The fact that I did it in previous games was not my entire defense, I noted that it is my usual behaviour, but by itself in this game, I doubt it was this scummy, before the contradiction... so, I actually suspect GM and Mido more, since they were quick to vote me, rather than, say, Momoka, who did it after all the discussion happened, and I voted or her anyway.

So, yes, mafia are supposed to do that, it helps them look town, and as Zima said, it is the easiest for a mafioso to look town at D1. This I noted to Yato who based her read on RainbowSkittles to that. I still find RS not suspicious because of his meta, even if mafiosi are supposed to use it for their advantage too.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

A large part of my defense... what were I supposed to defend back then? I askesd questions but did not vote someone. I call it careful scumhunting.
The fact that I did it in previous games was not my entire defense, I noted that it is my usual behaviour, but by itself in this game, I doubt it was this scummy, before the contradiction... so, I actually suspect GM and Mido more, since they were quick to vote me, rather than, say, Momoka, who did it after all the discussion happened, and I voted or her anyway.

So, yes, mafia are supposed to do that, it helps them look town, and as Zima said, it is the easiest for a mafioso to look town at D1. This I noted to Yato who based her read on RainbowSkittles to that. I still find RS not suspicious because of his meta, even if mafiosi are supposed to use it for their advantage too.

1) That wasn't the issue, it was the questions you were asking, such as if you look scummy which just comes across as jumpy.
2) Exactly. I could act like my usual self and still be scum. You know how scum gets caught, small slip ups. GM saw small things in your posts that came across as scummy, and we went for it, because D1 does not have a lot to go off of.
3a) So GM and I are suspcious because we voted you off of little evidence? That just sounds like an OMGUS. For starters you have no choice but to go off of so little day one since day one has nothing to go off of at the beginning. Second, you need a better reason than us just voting you to say we are suspicious.
3b) If you believe Momoka isn't suspicious, then she was no different than the others that had joke votes on them for your tying the vote thing, and thus the fact that you made a point of choosing someone with reasoning on them just seems like you didn't want us jumping on you saying "OMG he tied using a joke voted person" and comes off as jumpy again. You also could have tried to lead a lynch on one of us, and the thread was more than active enough for that too.
4) Do what? Say they are acting like their townselves because that doesn't help them. It actually just looks worse, and really the other players are supposed to know that and point it out, not the player them-self.
5) How does that help your case?



Also just want to note @Rabbit; Why did you feel the need to remind Marius to unvote her joke vote on you, when you were in no danger of being lynched?

 

[Qing'e]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

Also just want to note @Rabbit; Why did you feel the need to remind Marius to unvote her joke vote on you, when you were in no danger of being lynched?

Because it indicated that she hadn't been paying attention to the thread, and I thought I'd get her attention, as I knew she'd be on to update BB Mafia.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

EDIT: This is part of the PM I sent to Rabbit, which is pretty much my claim. He said that he is going to announce it openly, so I might just do it myself, oh well.

I am a 1x Governor. I can stop a single lynch during the game. Unfortunately, when I went to bed last night, I used the single shot since your (Rabbit) vote had not come up and I was going to get lynched. If I were up by the time you placed your No Lynch, I would have saved the shot, but it now got wasted, oh well So I am pretty much a vanilla now.

A large part of my defense... what were I supposed to defend back then? I askesd questions but did not vote someone. I call it careful scumhunting.
The fact that I did it in previous games was not my entire defense, I noted that it is my usual behaviour, but by itself in this game, I doubt it was this scummy, before the contradiction... so, I actually suspect GM and Mido more, since they were quick to vote me, rather than, say, Momoka, who did it after all the discussion happened, and I voted or her anyway.

So, yes, mafia are supposed to do that, it helps them look town, and as Zima said, it is the easiest for a mafioso to look town at D1. This I noted to Yato who based her read on RainbowSkittles to that. I still find RS not suspicious because of his meta, even if mafiosi are supposed to use it for their advantage too.

1) That wasn't the issue, it was the questions you were asking, such as if you look scummy which just comes across as jumpy.
2) Exactly. I could act like my usual self and still be scum. You know how scum gets caught, small slip ups. GM saw small things in your posts that came across as scummy, and we went for it, because D1 does not have a lot to go off of.
3a) So GM and I are suspcious because we voted you off of little evidence? That just sounds like an OMGUS. For starters you have no choice but to go off of so little day one since day one has nothing to go off of at the beginning. Second, you need a better reason than us just voting you to say we are suspicious.
3b) If you believe Momoka isn't suspicious, then she was no different than the others that had joke votes on them for your tying the vote thing, and thus the fact that you made a point of choosing someone with reasoning on them just seems like you didn't want us jumping on you saying "OMG he tied using a joke voted person" and comes off as jumpy again. You also could have tried to lead a lynch on one of us, and the thread was more than active enough for that too.
4) Do what? Say they are acting like their townselves because that doesn't help them. It actually just looks worse, and really the other players are supposed to know that and point it out, not the player them-self.
5) How does that help your case?



Also just want to note @Rabbit; Why did you feel the need to remind Marius to unvote her joke vote on you, when you were in no danger of being lynched?

1) These were not the only questions I asked. And I only did it for Clusiana, who has given two elaborate but really different reads on me, and RainbowSkittles, where I asked in general, since he was not participating in a discussion involving his actions.
2) Same. This is my problem with meta, I don't really know what stance should I have on it. I have noticed that both I and others are playing according to it, yet I have seen cases where it was used by scum very well. Of course I do, and I understand why would you go for it, yet Day 1 logic is not that strong and can lead to some bad mislynches.
3a) I know it sounds like an OMGUS, but it is a possibility I have considered. Since Day 1 was focused on trying to lynch me, I have to base my reads on said discussion. Thus, my reads are based on what everyone said about me. For you, who have not witnessed a player getting lynched (thus learning their allignment) it is still like Day 1 in terms of information. In my case, I actually have the info someone would have if a lynch on "Zexy" actually happened. I wonder, if I had got lynched (thus everyone learning I am town), wouldn't you suspect those that tried to force a mislynch on me? What bugs me is that you are still so focused on lynching JUST ME, which means that other player's actions do not get questioned. I am going to give more reads on actual Day 2. yeah, I doubt the mafia would kill me of all people
3b) Momoka is the one I could suspect the most out of the four players with one vote! I did not say that I do not suspect her in general, but her third vote on me had reasoning, it happened much later when my contradiction and everything was up (unlike you who voted me earlier with less evidence, only to add more accusations as time went on). I also voted for her, and this could cause a lynch on her, she had no reason to not do it. I wonder, wasn't Momoka's vote a blatant OMGUS?
4) When you first questioned me, I told you that I was asking questions but not voting because I did not have reads. I couldn't defend any much more than that, right? For me, not voting since I don't have reasons is not suspicious. Yet, to back this up, I added that I have done this in past games where I was town. It was not my only defense in all of your accusations.
5) It helps a little, since I was trying to say that I actually judge based on meta, both myself, and RS, and others. However, after this game, I am not sure if I should ever overfocus on it again, I have learned my lesson.

To me, Rabbit looks town, because his vote is what stopped the mislynch. If he were mafia, he should know better and let me get lynched.

 

[Qing'e]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

This is part of the PM I sent to Rabbit, which is pretty much my claim. He said that he is going to announce it openly,

........As I wrote in my reply, "I think I'll look for counterclaims first. I'll give you a few minutes to object, then I'm presenting your claim openly." (Emphasis added) But this works too... So, any counterclaims?

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

Object to what, revealing the role? If the only person I find town wanted to do it, I have no problem with that.
I was considering claiming publicly anyway, but only in Day 2 and if I were to get extremely many votes again. Might as well do it sooner now that it came to this.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

Well, I don't think the claim in itself means much to clear Zexy. FinalArcadia had a Mafia Governor in her Christmas Mafia, and if Zexy isn't even a Mafia Governor, he could be a 1x Lynchproof, and Governor is a less scummy sounding claim to claim in itself. I find him outing it in thread to be really strange, since then that means the Mafia knows his role and doesn't think of maybe Roleblocking Zexy if he's really on the chopping block to use as a lynch. Plus the fact he claimed it's already used up now means he can't prove he's a Governor...

EDIT: I also don't agree with Zexy that Rabbit has to be Town for making a No Lynch? No lynches are good for the Mafia because they settle nothing, although I can see why Zexy would trust him. I don't get why he'd make Rabbit ask for counterclaims since his role could be a Mafia one too, and if Rabbit did it, I think it would have been obvious the claim was most likely from Zexy having claimed to him.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

Well, I don't think the claim in itself means much to clear Zexy. FinalArcadia had a Mafia Governor in her Christmas Mafia, and if Zexy isn't even a Mafia Governor, he could be a 1x Lynchproof, and Governor is a less scummy sounding claim to claim in itself. I find him outing it in thread to be really strange, since then that means the Mafia knows his role and doesn't think of maybe Roleblocking Zexy if he's really on the chopping block to use as a lynch. Plus the fact he claimed it's already used up now means he can't prove he's a Governor...

EDIT: I also don't agree with Zexy that Rabbit has to be Town for making a No Lynch? No lynches are good for the Mafia because they settle nothing, although I can see why Zexy would trust him. I don't get why he'd make Rabbit ask for counterclaims since his role could be a Mafia one too, and if Rabbit did it, I think it would have been obvious the claim was most likely from Zexy having claimed to him.

I know, but what more could I do? Outing it in-thread I did because Rabbit wanted to. Does it matter this much at this point, mafia knows I am the best lynch target, and if I were a power role, I would have claimed it before, it would be extremely risky not to do so.

Well, if I am Town, I know for one that the mafia would love a lynch on me. Unless they are hidden within those who voted me and are afraid od things not getting settled. I did not make Rabbit do it, he decided to do it, this is why I had to out the claim anyway. Rabbit confirms that I claimed to him, does it change much?

 

[Feenie]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

Actually, there is a character that fits the governor role. Lacus is someone who I think would be town, and she's the only character I can think of that fits the role. @Squall Leonhart; could confirm this(only person I know of that has finished the series, anyway).

Not to say that Zexy couldn't be lying about his role, but since there's a character that fits it... I'm more likely to believe the claim than to not.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

I know, but what more could I do? Outing it in-thread I did because Rabbit wanted to. Does it matter this much at this point, mafia knows I am the best lynch target, and if I were a power role, I would have claimed it before, it would be extremely risky not to do so.

Well, if I am Town, I know for one that the mafia would love a lynch on me. Unless they are hidden within those who voted me and are afraid od things not getting settled. I did not make Rabbit do it, he decided to do it, this is why I had to out the claim anyway. Rabbit confirms that I claimed to him, does it change much?

I don't really think you're that much in jeopardy because you had like, what? Three votes out of 14 other players who could have voted you?

He should have done it in the Day instead, but what is done is done...

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

I know, but what more could I do? Outing it in-thread I did because Rabbit wanted to. Does it matter this much at this point, mafia knows I am the best lynch target, and if I were a power role, I would have claimed it before, it would be extremely risky not to do so.

Well, if I am Town, I know for one that the mafia would love a lynch on me. Unless they are hidden within those who voted me and are afraid od things not getting settled. I did not make Rabbit do it, he decided to do it, this is why I had to out the claim anyway. Rabbit confirms that I claimed to him, does it change much?

I don't really think you're that much in jeopardy because you had like, what? Three votes out of 14 other players who could have voted you?

He should have done it in the Day instead, but what is done is done...

Not in jeopardy?! There were 3 votes on me and 3 votes on No Lynch a few hours before the update, were it not for Rabbit's No Lynch or the Governor shot I wasted I would get lynched.

I did not claim to him in the Day. I think that for me, Day and Night does not make much of a difference, I do not think I am getting Nightkilled. In fact, Night may be better, since you all saw that I did not get lynched over the sheer amount of No Lynch votes. It was Rabbit's choice for the outing to happen in the Night.

 

[Qing'e]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

It was Rabbit's choice for the outing to happen in the Night.

No. I specifically mentioned that I'd wait to give you a chance to object, and wouldn't have outed you if you did, but you ignored that and immediately outed yourself. You just seem more and more jumpy...

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

Not in jeopardy?! There were 3 votes on me and 3 votes on No Lynch a few hours before the update, were it not for Rabbit's No Lynch or the Governor shot I wasted I would get lynched.

And 4 people voted no lynch over 3 votes, why would you be necessarily be in jeopardy in Day 2? More people could support you or really go against you, and I think with the attention you have gotten in thread, and if you're really Town, then a Cop could check you and clear you unless there's a Framer who decided to frame you(and yes there could be Godfather, but the odds of that are low). So I still see no reason to think you could likely be jeopardy again the following Day.

I did not claim to him in the Day. I think that for me, Day and Night does not make much of a difference, I do not think I am getting Nightkilled. In fact, Night may be better, since you all saw that I did not get lynched over the sheer amount of No Lynch votes. It was Rabbit's choice for the outing to happen in the Night.

I know. Well, for me it does, and the more the Mafia know. I don't see how that makes Rabbit's in the Night better? Although you ended up outing it anyway. It doesn't matter much now anyway.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Night 1 - "False Peace" ~ 29/5/2014

And 4 people voted no lynch over 3 votes, why would you be necessarily be in jeopardy in Day 2? More people could support you or really go against you, and I think with the attention you have gotten in thread, and if you're really Town, then a Cop could check you and clear you unless there's a Framer who decided to frame you(and yes there could be Godfather, but the odds of that are low). So I still see no reason to think you could likely be jeopardy again the following Day.

It just seems like I will be, because no better target has been found and I doubt you are going for a second No Lynch. Yes, I think the Cop should check me. The Godfather fear is there, and I have seen Godfather/Lynchproofs here and there. If a framer decides to do their trick, oh well, you will mislynch a vanilla and realize that a Framer exists. I have already misplayed a lot anyway. I hope I am not. I am going to give actual scumhunting reads in Day 2. I fear there may be some OMGUS though