Review JN114: Training Battle of Flames! Satoshi VS Shinji!!

[MimeyTheKeeper]

If Ash ends up facing Cynthia, I’m at least expecting that he thinks of rotating the battlers so he can have as many conscious pokemon by the time Garchomp comes out. Sure, Dragonite can’t take on that thing 1v1, but Gengar has a near perfect moveset to counter it and Dracovish hits like a truck, so they could soften it up.

Unfortunately it is so obviously telegraphed, that it is similar situation to Drasna fight -
(a) Either will writers be reasonable, and then it is obvious Ash will face her
(b) or they will be subverting expectations so harshly, that they IMHO do not have the tools and wits to pull it off and any reasonable deductions/discussions end. Then Ash may as well have Pidgeot and Lapras returning to fight Iris, I would not be surprised by anything at that point. But it would almost undoubtedly be forced.

So if you don't mind, I will stride with notion that (in reasonable world) Ash is practically confirmed to fight Cynthia.

Now to the crux of the matter - taking down Garchomp. I agree, but since the match will be probably 3v3 (first round is telegraphed to be 2v2 it seems - although Raihan episode suggested 3v3, but special preview shows only 2 Pokémon per Master 8 participant if I am not mistaken), there are not that many options. Cynthia will obviously use Garchomp, almost expecting Kommo-o and there are many options like Milotic (seen against Iris), Roserade (Arceus specials), I would personally expect Togekiss to counter dragons or maybe Glaceon? It is very hard to imagine Ash taking down both of remaining Pokémon with his team still intact and that leaves realistically two (and one of them quite banged up) Pokémon to take down Garchomp. So Dragonite is still expected to do some heavy lifting.

Personally, I made my peace with result, but at least would like the writers to do it convincingly. I was giving them pass with Duralodon, even there it could be debated that Lucario made surprisingly quick work of him contrary to Leon's Charizard. But OK, Duralodon was practically immobile and that Spirit Bomb Aura Sphere due to its slow nature and build up was unexpected and insanely effective. So let's say it made sense, and does not somehow say that Ash has trained new hatchling in few months to be more powerful than literally Monarch's Ace Pokémon, whom he has been training for years and is currently unbeatable.

 

[Sai]

I was gonna say, did they mention Brandon at all in the episode? I don't think they did, so there was no indication if Paul beat him or not and that was just backstory from the magazine.

Also they need to retire Squirtle to oak's lab so he can be with his friends someday lol

 

[Blob]

So... Paul is a copycat trainer now? Way to only use the aces of Champions, really shows how original Paul is...

 

[KrspaceT]

So... Paul is a copycat trainer now? Way to only use the aces of Champions, really shows how original Paul is...

Honestly I've seen it postulated that he's always kind of been like that. TV tropes quote time: Fridge page.

• Paul. While it's hard to deny that he's a Jerkass, the episode of DP in which he fights Brandon explains a lot. Wears safari gear, similar hairstyles, prone to dropping The Reason You Suck speeches, cold demeanor, insistence on only using the strongest Mons available... He's trying to be Brandon, but doesn't have the maturity to realise that it isn't all about power.

Add in that old Orange Juice gag of his and it adds a bit to his character.

 

[Sai]

So... Paul is a copycat trainer now? Way to only use the aces of Champions, really shows how original Paul is...

??? They explained why in the episode. Go even brings it up.

 

[Blob]

Honestly I've seen it postulated that he's always kind of been like that. TV tropes quote time: Fridge page.


Add in that old Orange Juice gag of his and it adds a bit to his character.

Except that at least before he didn't use only everyone's aces. Imagine if he used Hippowdon, Bronzong and Garchomp against Ash in the league? He did try to use Infernape and did end up using Drapion, but I'd say overall he's regressed. If he REALLY went out of the way to only use the aces of the Masters 8, that just shows how much more immature he is than at the start of his journey. If Paul had grown AT ALL, he would have used the Pokémon he got first, to show he has faith in his original team.

 

[Blob]

??? They explained why in the episode. Go even brings it up.

Why? I haven't had time to watch it. It just bugs me so much because Paul has got such bulky Pokémon like Ursaring, Honchkrow, Torterra etc... only to not use them. It's a shame he's just copped out.

 

[Emelie]

I think the part where Go comments on how Infernape listens to Paul as well is very interesting. I was hoping Paul would miss Infernape but it looks like it might actually be the other way around. For some reason I can't help but find that depressing.

I like how Paul used Cynthia's ace. She was very nice to him and his Pokémon and was very patient with him even when he was acting like a butt. Maybe he was just impressed by her strenght but maybe he just needed an adult to talk to him on his own level. Sometimes you almost forget that Paul is still just a child as well.

Interesting that Paul became a gym leader which mirrors Gary's game counterpart becoming the gym leader of Giovanni's old gym. It would be fun to expand on this idea. I can't imagine Paul as a type specialist so he is probably like Blue/Green in the Gen 2 games.

Although I'm surprised that he is happy with just being a gym leader. Doesn't that ironically enough make him similar to his brother? He just gave up on his dreams of becoming a champion, never battled Brandon and Cynthia again, didn't even challenge the Masters 8 but instead choose to settle down and become a gym leader?

Oh well... As long as he is happy. But it feels a little bittersweet somehow.

 

[El Squibbonator]

Did they ever say where Paul became a Gym Leader for?

 

[Reborn Talonflame]

Did they ever say where Paul became a Gym Leader for?

Not sure, but I hope it’s this.
Without retconning the series too much, I would assume Viridian, cause of the vacancy left by TR, and it’s close to the lab for him to visit. Second guess would have been Veilstone, but I doubt Maylene would have stepped down.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Now THIS is the kind of episode Journeys has been needing. Seeing Ash train with ALL of his Pokemon was just awesome. We needed this so badly.looks like Gengar got Will-O-Wisp and Lucario got Bullet Punch. Paul's return was actually handled pretty well, though I guess he's a Gym Leader now? The battles were alright and I'm glad Ash got to defeat Paul here. Overall a great episode.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

1.Second Full Battle (Sinnoh League)

2.First Full Battle (Lake Acuity)

3.First 3 on 3 Battle (DP)

4.Chimchar vs Turtwig

5.Second 3 on 3 Battle (JN)

6.Ursaring & Gliscor vs Chimchar & Gligar

7.Turtwig/Grotle vs Honchkrow

 

[El Squibbonator]

Am I the only one who's noticed that every time Paul has been defeated in a formal battle on-screen, we see three of his Pokemon debut?

By Cynthia: Torterra, Murkrow, and Weavile
By Brandon: Hariyama, Lairon, and Nidoking
By Ash: Froslass, Drapion, and Gastrodon
By Ash again: Gyarados, Metagross, and Garchomp

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I wonder if Paul is trying to become a Gym Leader or if he already is one. I'm not sure without subtitles.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I’m gutted that Ash doesn’t use his reserves, Paul>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ash for using reserves
LOOK AT HOW HAPPY TORTERRA, OSHAWOTT, AND TORKOAL ARE!!!!
DP flashbacks look horrible. DP Ash looks 14. JN’s DP Ash looks 7.

 

[El Squibbonator]

The title sort of led us to believe he would be using his reserves too. "Training Battle of Flames" really implies that one or both participants would be using Fire-types. And since Ash hasn't caught a Fire-type yet in Journeys, it only made sense that he'd be using the ones he'd caught earlier. But not only did Ash not use any Fire-types, neither did Paul!

So why the "Flames" part of the title? Were they trying to trick us?

 

[Sai]

The title sort of led us to believe he would be using his reserves too. "Training Battle of Flames" really implies that one or both participants would be using Fire-types. And since Ash hasn't caught a Fire-type yet in Journeys, it only made sense that he'd be using the ones he'd caught earlier. But not only did Ash not use any Fire-types, neither did Paul!

So why the "Flames" part of the title? Were they trying to trick us?

Did you watch the episode? Gengar was literally training with Ash's fire types and learned Will o Wisp. It used it to defeat Metagross.

 

[nickdt]

I think the part where Go comments on how Infernape listens to Paul as well is very interesting. I was hoping Paul would miss Infernape but it looks like it might actually be the other way around. For some reason I can't help but find that depressing.

I like how Paul used Cynthia's ace. She was very nice to him and his Pokémon and was very patient with him even when he was acting like a butt. Maybe he was just impressed by her strenght but maybe he just needed an adult to talk to him on his own level. Sometimes you almost forget that Paul is still just a child as well.

Interesting that Paul became a gym leader which mirrors Gary's game counterpart becoming the gym leader of Giovanni's old gym. It would be fun to expand on this idea. I can't imagine Paul as a type specialist so he is probably like Blue/Green in the Gen 2 games.

Although I'm surprised that he is happy with just being a gym leader. Doesn't that ironically enough make him similar to his brother? He just gave up on his dreams of becoming a champion, never battled Brandon and Cynthia again, didn't even challenge the Masters 8 but instead choose to settle down and become a gym leader?

Oh well... As long as he is happy. But it feels a little bittersweet somehow.

Infernape: Being with that jerk was better than rotting at a lab.

 

[KrspaceT]

Did Ash actually say with his words he won't use the reserves?

Edit: Also all it would take for Infernape to go anywhere is if he asked Ash to come along. That is all. Heck he could just go to the Cerise Lab for the same effect

 

[Sai]

As far as I can tell he said he was battling Leon with his current Pokemon