Pokémon Horizons General Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Eitarou]

Between his hair color(s), skin tone, and apparent choice of Fuecoco, Roy looks an awful lot like Kiawe, huh?

 

[Johtoo]

Well, Yu-Gi-Oh, first of all, but second of all, the intellectual property is Pokemon, not Ash and Pikachu - the anime has always been driven more by the creatures themselves than by character development of any depth, so it's silly to assume out of hand that it cannot be successful without one specific character at its head.

Yugioh fell into obscurity in Japan and in the west the moment Yugi left the show. And your second point is only half correct. Pokemon isn't Ash, but it is certainly Pikachu. Even the Pokemon Logo has Pikachu's face plastered everywhere. Likewise, the anime is Ash and Pikachu. It's been that way for 25 years.

He won the world championship, he has reached ultimate highs and is probably at his peak. That's the culmination of his 25 year long arc.

They are literally giving him a 3 month long farewell arc, how is that not enough and how are you so sure it'd be inadequate.

Ash never once won a league by going through the gym format, then defeating the elite 4 before going onto the champion. My comment was also more directed towards the characters he has met and the Pokemon that he has left behind. I mean, he has Pokemon (still) they lack development. He has released Pokemon to return to. You cannot do this in 11 episodes. In fact, I don't think 52 episodes would be enough. You're also forgetting characters like Team Rocket. They need their own conclusion too.

 

[Rockapheller]

I think I am in the monitory here but I genuinely appreciate a fresh start of the anime. It was always a nice welcome to see spin off series where Ash and Pikachu have not been presented because it was something different. The art style is beautiful and the characters seem likable. I get good vibes and I have good feelings about this freshness of air.

I am excited to watch Ash’s last journey with the original gang, and I am just as excited to see where Paldea takes all of us to.

 

[Pyross]

Considering the age demographics that play Pokemon, you're actually wrong. Likwsise, just because the anime has a target audience, it doesn't mean the show is entirely designed for said audience. Do you think an 8 year old would understand Ash calling back infernape? Also, try and find me an anime that has succeeded after replacing a mainstay. Also, considering Japan's aging demographic, it isn't entirely wise for an anime to be entirely dedicated to a single market anymore - especially in a market such as Japan.

Boruto, Dragon Ball (You mentioned Goku, but if you actually watched Z his time in the spotlight compared to many other characters, specifically Gohan, was extremely short, heck he spent a good portion of the series dead), Any Yu-Gi-Oh or Digimon anime. I understand your frustration about Ash being replaced but you shouldn't be throwing around random pieces of information as fact. Will some people stop watching the anime? Yes. Is it going to be as doom and gloom as you are implying? Absolutely not.

 

[Johtoo]

Boruto, Dragon Ball (You mentioned Goku, but if you actually watched Z his time in the spotlight compared to many other characters, specifically Gohan, was extremely short, heck he spent a good portion of the series dead), Any Yu-Gi-Oh or Digimon anime. I understand your frustration about Ash being replaced but you shouldn't be throwing around random pieces of information as fact. Will some people stop watching the anime? Yes. Is it going to be as doom and gloom as you are implying? Absolutely not.

Boruto wasn't anywhere near as popular is naruto. The same goes for Dragon Ball (without Goku) and Digimon and Yugioh. That is my point. Once the main character is replaced, the show's popularity diminishes. Also, did I say the series would die? No, i said this specific one would, because I believe the show-runners will respond to this quickly and bring Ash back sooner rather than later. You're right though, some of my arguments are coming from frustration, but I believe I have a right to be given how Journeys wasn't written to be Ash's swan song. And i know i'm not the only one frustrated here.

 

[Greninjaman]

Isn't it a bit TOO late to be replacing Ash at this point? I stopped watching the show after X and Y (though I did follow the next two shows to see what Ash is up to).

If they were going to replace Ash, they should have done it after the Kanto Saga and have each region's saga have its own Protagonist.

 

[Emmy]

Isn't it a bit TOO late to be replacing Ash at this point?

Better late than never IMO.

 

[Konja7]

Boruto wasn't anywhere near as popular is naruto. The same goes for Dragon Ball (without Goku) and Digimon and Yugioh. That is my point. Once the main character is replaced, the show's popularity diminishes. Also, did I say the series would die? No, i said this specific one would, because I believe the show-runners will respond to this quickly and bring Ash back sooner rather than later. You're right though, some of my arguments are coming from frustration, but I believe I have a right to be given how Journeys wasn't written to be Ash's swan song. And i know i'm not the only one frustrated here.

Considering they plan to end Ash adventure in 11 episodes, I really doubt Ash could return if the anime fails.

It's more likely they plan to replace protagonists each three years (with the new games). So, even if this season with new protagonists fail, they would just replace them for new protagonists.

 

[SamurottMan]

Ash never once won a league by going through the gym format, then defeating the elite 4 before going onto the champion. My comment was also more directed towards the characters he has met and the Pokemon that he has left behind. I mean, he has Pokemon (still) they lack development. He has released Pokemon to return to. You cannot do this in 11 episodes. In fact, I don't think 52 episodes would be enough. You're also forgetting characters like Team Rocket. They need their own conclusion too.

This is a very unrealistic expectation, though.

The arc of characters and Pokemon are ended when they get removed from main character status.

The point of the series is for Ash to figure himself out after the events of Journeys, not to tie loose ends.

 

[Shadao]

Yugioh fell into obscurity in Japan and in the west the moment Yugi left the show. And your second point is only half correct. Pokemon isn't Ash, but it is certainly Pikachu. Even the Pokemon Logo has Pikachu's face plastered everywhere. Likewise, the anime is Ash and Pikachu. It's been that way for 25 years.

Ash never once won a league by going through the gym format, then defeating the elite 4 before going onto the champion. My comment was also more directed towards the characters he has met and the Pokemon that he has left behind. I mean, he has Pokemon (still) they lack development. He has released Pokemon to return to. You cannot do this in 11 episodes. In fact, I don't think 52 episodes would be enough. You're also forgetting characters like Team Rocket. They need their own conclusion too.

The Pokémon anime has been in a decline in terms of rating, and it has become apparent that the games no longer need the anime to sell the merchandise. SV sold the most copies of any Pokémon game yet, and there was not even a peep of the SV anime at all.

And given how Journeys gave Ash all the regional gimmicks yet the recent games limit such gimmicks, it is also apparent Ash was becoming incompatible with game promotions. He works best when he has no limits. But that would require Ash and Pikachu to be free of game promotions, which will never work in the long run.

Ash and Pikachu are cultural icons of Japan, yes. But such cultural icons deserve a high note to end with, just in case. It's like cherry blossoms, you can't truly appreciate the value until it withers away.

 

[Pyross]

Boruto wasn't anywhere near as popular is naruto. The same goes for Dragon Ball (without Goku) and Digimon and Yugioh. That is my point. Once the main character is replaced, the show's popularity diminishes. Also, did I say the series would die? No, i said this specific one would, because I believe the show-runners will respond to this quickly and bring Ash back sooner rather than later. You're right though, some of my arguments are coming from frustration, but I believe I have a right to be given how Journeys wasn't written to be Ash's swan song. And i know i'm not the only one frustrated here.

Boruto's manga sales are going down in the rubbish, yes, but the same can't be said for the anime (Boruto has myriad of other problems causing its dwindling fame). The latest Super movie shows that Dragon Ball even without the focus on Goku is far from unpopular. Same with Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon, the first seasons whilst nostalgic, are far from the most popular in their respective franchises (GX and 5ds sold better than OG series, and Tamers and Frontier saw similar reception disregarding the western controversy).

As for Pokemon, Origins and the mini series on YT have shown that people don't really care about Ash as much as some might think, once again the reception will be diverse but not as extreme as you say.

 

[Kurolegacy]

It seems that the last 11 episodes would be him reuniting with all of his Pokémon. And I do mean all of them.

Reuniting sure but what better way to send them off than actually having them compete in the biggest tournament Ash has been in and help him to reach this high point rather than just having them sit back and act as cheerleaders?

 

[CyberMonsterTrainer]

In battles yeah, but they should have done so much more. He should have used some of his reserves, he should have caught more than 5 d*** pokemon, they should have him let him catch at least a mid-tier Legendary and one of the Galar starters.

They shouldn't have made it so he only used Pikachu 9/10 in JN, they shouldn't have prioritized Kanto so much, despite being a world tour season, they shouldn't have made him double up on Fighting and Dragon types if they were gonna be so restrictive, and they definitely shouldn't have tried to make a brand new character his equal by letting Goh one-up him and hog screentime,

 

[Dorothy]

Yugioh fell into obscurity in Japan and in the west the moment Yugi left the show. And your second point is only half correct. Pokemon isn't Ash, but it is certainly Pikachu. Even the Pokemon Logo has Pikachu's face plastered everywhere. Likewise, the anime is Ash and Pikachu. It's been that way for 25 years.

lol what? No it didn't. It wasn't a phenomenon anymore but it was and remains popular, and Yusei and Jaden in particular are beloved by fans. You are mistaking the fading of a fad, which are always temporary, to integral damage to the brand.

Pikachu is the mascot of Pokemon, but that doesn't actually mean he has to be a main character front and center at all times. The anime is capable of moving on, and it was always going to have to in order to adapt to modern times.

I swear, this fandom is utterly reactionary when it comes to change.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

I wonder what will happen to the TRio? Ash gets to retire/travel offscreen, but what are those bozos gonna steal now?

 

[FelipePR]

New series announced, and I'm just thinking about Ash's farewell, as well as the other characters who accompanied him. So many years for just 11 episodes, it is my initial impression.

 

[Shadao]

I wonder what will happen to the TRio? Ash gets to retire/travel offscreen, but what are those bozos gonna steal now?

Still chase after Pikachu... or they retire from being Team Rocket.

Maybe Ash will knock on Giovanni and beat him up, then Team Rocket as a whole gets disbanded.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Well, Yu-Gi-Oh, first of all, but second of all, the intellectual property is Pokemon, not Ash and Pikachu - the anime has always been driven more by the creatures themselves than by character development of any depth, so it's silly to assume out of hand that it cannot be successful without one specific character at its head.

How successful Yu-Gi-Oh! is outside of Japan after DM ended is pretty debatable. The anime has been airing consistently there for years, but none of the spin-offs have been successful outside of Japan. To be fair, I don't think that was due to changing lead characters so much as other factors contributing to the anime becoming less successful in most countries. Besides that, I'd still say that Yu-Gi-Oh! is still not the best example to bring up when DM was still a manga adaptation and replacing your lead character after five years is still not the same thing as doing so after twenty five. One is a much bigger risk than the other, especially when replacing Yugi was much more of a necessity story and marketing wise. Even with Ash's progress in Journeys, I don't think it's a necessity to replace him.

Well I guess this explains why they didn't have any news for the future of the anime for the longest time. I'm still shocked that they're actually going this route. Even after everything that happened with Ash vs. Leon, I still thought that brand new leads were the least likely option. I thought it would be more likely that they'd just do a complete reboot to keep Ash around. This does make me wonder if they'll keep Ash for the reboot movies whenever we do get a new movie. I just assumed that they would figure out a way for Ash to go to Paldea, especially when they had Team Rocket going there to showcase the Paldea starters in those shorts. I didn't think it would be that difficult or impossible for them to pull that off.

Having new leads is both shocking and honestly kind of sad. I like Ash and much like the anime itself, seeing him on going on new adventures for years has been kind of comfortable. It's like no matter all of the changes in my life over the years, there are always new Pokemon episodes to look forward to. Now the anime is still going to continue, but without Ash, Pikachu and I assume Team Rocket, it's going to feel really different. I'm sure that they'll bring back Ash for cameos/specials, so this may not be the last time we'll see him forever, but it still feels unreal to me. It feels like such a huge risk to replace your iconic protagonist after twenty five years.

I am glad that we are getting some kind of Paldea anime, even if it is a lot later than I expected. I like Liko and Roy's designs, especially Liko, but blue is my favorite color, so I'm biased there. The Paldea starters are all so adorable too. I'm happy that there is going to be a proper female lead this time around when the lack of a proper female lead was one of my biggest issues with Journeys. I just hope that the new characters are likable and it will be possible to still see Ash and his friends in the future.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Sad to see Ash go, but happy his journey with us finally comes to a satisfying conclusion. I've been saying we can't follow Ash forever and keep resetting him for awhile now, at some point we needed his story to come to a climax.

Some hopes for this new anime
New protagonist has a satisfying arc that begins and ends with the generation. We don't need another 25 year long protagonist lol.

No team rocket, conclude their story with the 11 episode special. I've hated team rocket for a bit now. Until DP they were cool, but since then (and before then be honest) they existed as filler episode villains that came in got their butts kicked and never did anything interesting plot wise (overall plot, some of their plans were cool/funny) They interrupt gyms, tournaments and just do filler villain of the week junk. They haven't been characters since the OG series.

Ash is not the father of the new protagonist.
Small time skip only, maybe Ash is 15 now, but not a dad. I would like to see him make some appearances overtime as a strong trainer and guide for new protagonists once every couple of years.

Show us Ash dad in the 11 episode special

Make the anime different, don't let them be Ash 2.0

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Hm. I'll try to watch the new series I suppose but there is a non zero chance I end up not getting interested due to the lack of ash.
Especially if they are going to do the world tour thing again, meaning not even seeing paldea animated could rope me.
Speaking of I hope they dont shaft 80% of paldea pokemon and trainers like they did galar