Pokemon Stars Discussion Thread (Speculation)

[godiego]

So, basically, predicated upon someone else making things up.

are you like, late to this discussion? i think it's been pretty well established that whatever-their-name from EuroGamer has a solid enough record to be taken seriously, at least until proven otherwise.

You already conflated them. And you did it twice.

i'm still seeing a lot of "there are no rules" and not a lot of "Game Freak's pattern is being unpredictable." i know it's a subtle difference.

Please stop trying the semantic tricks. You're not very good at them, and it's detracting from you making a coherent argument. I'm actually having some trouble figuring out what relevance some of your comments in this particular reply have to anything we talked about.

then don't do it first. if you wanna argue the quality of the arguments rather than have a normal discussion, then make sure your shit don't stink and don't be salty if someone does it to you.

My original comment that precipitated what you first said about history was in a post not even talking to you.

open forum. open discussion. if you don't want people to talk to you, then use PMs or visitor messages. hell, even the ignore function (it's very lovely).

So I fail to see how not addressing what you said when I wasn't even talking to you at the time is any fault of mine.

because you responded. it's never an issue to you know, not say anything at all.

Doesn't have to be. It's design and marketing decisions, not limitations of technology or time.

except if a lack of time or tech isn't a factor, why not do everything you can? why relegate the games to a narrow field of what they can add and improve upon?

 

[Morningstar]

i don't consider the pairs to be separate games.

In that case:

1. a pair, then 2 updated versions
   
2. a pair, then 1 updated version
3. 2 pairs and an update
4. 2 pairs and update
5. 2 pairs
6. 2 pairs
7. 1 pair (so far)

Okay then, I can see how 1 might be different under this context. but the point about Gen 2 having the least games still stands (in fact your counting the pairs as 1 means that Gen 2 would stay the record holder par a premature end to gen 7)

 

[godiego]

Okay then, I can see how 1 might be different under this context. but the point about Gen 2 having the least games still stands (in fact your counting the pairs as 1 means that Gen 2 would stay the record holder par a premature end to gen 7)

sure. definitely wasn't trying to refute that Gen 2 (along with 5 and 6) has the fewest number of releases. who knows, maybe two releases is the new normal?

 

[Silktree]

Game Freak releasing Stars is based both on the history of the company releasing third additions to a main duo and on some data that isn't used yet. The idea that it'll be released on Switch has, every time I've seen it, been predicated at least in part on the fact Yellow did something similar.

In short, the entire discussion about Stars is based on actions that Game Freak has done before. Including your posts, where you keep bringing up Game Freak's past history of trying to be unpredictable.

Incidentally, you're relying on the perceived pattern of Game Freak repeatedly refusing to follow patterns to argue against perceived patterns. Your argument is inherently self-refuting if anyone stops and thinks about it long enough.

Wake up and smell the roses: The idea that a third version will be released on the Switch is supported by a reputable gaming site saying just that, based on their sources that had previously leaked the Switch's concept. What fans perceive as likely based on history is far less pertinent here, and if you equate your musings with people that obviously have inside information, you're deluding yourself.

Also, the idea that they should be saving regional variants for Sinnoh is pretty laughable. Stars could use all the extra content it could get, and there is no shortage of variant ideas.

 

[Ereshkigal]

are you like, late to this discussion? i think it's been pretty well established that whatever-their-name from EuroGamer has a solid enough record to be taken seriously, at least until proven otherwise.

I was pointing out that your reply to me amounted to "Well, I didn't make it up!"

And I've read Eurogamer predictions before. While they tend to have some accuracy, they also sometimes run into problems because of things that change; the 3DS graphics chip, for example, was mispredicted by Eurogamer. I fully believe a game called Stars was planned for the Switch. But that doesn't mean it is now. Things change during development, and Game Freak has made it a special point to not publicly support the Switch on several occasions long after that prediction. This also would not be the first time that something was planned and then cancelled by them, either; Eurogamer wouldn't necessarily know, since they don't have direct information from Game Freak.

i'm still seeing a lot of "there are no rules" and not a lot of "Game Freak's pattern is being unpredictable." i know it's a subtle difference.

In terms of actual effects for the argument made, it's not a significant-enough difference. We're speaking on predictability of current and future actions based on past actions. Saying "there are no rules" is just another way of saying "unpredictable" in that circumstance.

Now, if you're talking about something like how people act within an arena match, saying "there are no rules" might hint at the lack of official regulations, but can easily not indicate predictability because many arena fighters would have already had a lot of training and would rely on that training. They just might be more willing to try moves normally considered cheating.

then don't do it first. if you wanna argue the quality of the arguments rather than have a normal discussion, then make sure your shit don't stink and don't be salty if someone does it to you.

I edited my post to remove that portion >.> I really shouldn't have posted it at all. I was in the wrong on that.

What that also means is that it is time for me to step away from the topic a bit after this post. I'm getting too focused on the argument aspect and hunting weaknesses, which is very much a personal weakness.

open forum. open discussion. if you don't want people to talk to you, then use PMs or visitor messages. hell, even the ignore function (it's very lovely).

because you responded. it's never an issue to you know, not say anything at all.

These statements are completely irrelevant to whether or not I hold any fault for not addressing anything you said in a reply not initially talking to you.

except if a lack of time or tech isn't a factor, why not do everything you can? why relegate the games to a narrow field of what they can add and improve upon?

Why not? You're making the same amount of money either way, most likely. How hard do you want to work for that money?

Wake up and smell the roses: The idea that a third version will be released on the Switch is supported by a reputable gaming site saying just that, based on their sources that had previously leaked the Switch's concept. What fans perceive as likely based on history is far less pertinent here, and if you equate your musings with people that obviously have inside information, you're deluding yourself.

I'm not deluding myself to think that a site that relies on rumors and early-production information is sometimes wrong. Are you enjoying that virtual console that Eurogramer predicted for the Switch? Or the Nvidia graphics card on your 3DS?

This isn't even the first time that Eurogamer has talked about a third Pokemon game. Remember when they predicted Pokemon Grey? Remember how accurate that turned out? And that one at least had much better credibility than just "sources."

I'm hoping Eurogamer is right. But they've been wrong before. Things change during production, so what information they have now is not necessarily reflective of what we'll see when things hit the market.

Also, the idea that they should be saving regional variants for Sinnoh is pretty laughable. Stars could use all the extra content it could get, and there is no shortage of variant ideas.

Laughable to you, maybe. But think of how many people would buy Sinnoh games if they had regional forms you couldn't get in Sun, Moon, and Stars.

 

[PurplePopplio]

What if the timeline looked like this:

2017 - Stars
2018 - Break
2019 - Gen 8
2020 - Sinnoh remakes (14 years after DP)

This would follow the 8-10-12 "pattern".

 

[Silktree]

I'm not deluding myself to think that a site that relies on rumors and early-production information is sometimes wrong. Are you enjoying that virtual console that Eurogramer predicted for the Switch? Or the Nvidia graphics card on your 3DS?

The GameCube Virtual Console rumor never specified when the games would be released, so there is absolutely no way of telling that it's wrong just because there is no Virtual Console at launch.

The 3DS rumor from 2009 is a glorified speculation article that was not based on information Eurogamer was directly privy to. It's also much easier to get hardware specs wrong than the existence of a game.

This isn't even the first time that Eurogamer has talked about a third Pokemon game. Remember when they predicted Pokemon Grey? Remember how accurate that turned out? And that one at least had much better credibility than just "sources."

Please. That article was just telling us about the URL, which is not inside information! They merely said that it would come as no surprise.

Things change during production, so what information they have now is not necessarily reflective of what we'll see when things hit the market.

Sure, but you're going on and on about history from 9 years ago as if it were more relevant to the discussion. It's silly.

Laughable to you, maybe. But think of how many people would buy Sinnoh games if they had regional forms you couldn't get in Sun, Moon, and Stars.

The point is if we get multiple games in this generation, each one could introduce regional forms or other kinds of forms. Generation VI had a total of 48 Mega Evolutions (plus three other forms), whereas this generation just has 18 regional variants right now.

 

[SinnohEevee]

1. Nothing is confirmed until Game Freak makes an official announcement. They can't change their mind after that.

2. Regional Formes can be introduced in both Alola and Sinnoh, right? Maybe some Alolan Pokémon would have a different forme in Sinnoh given the distance.

3. Stars could be just an SM port?

 

[Morningstar]

1. Nothing is confirmed until Game Freak makes an official announcement. They can't change their mind after that.

Can't say I disagree, but the problem is that since "Stars" is a codename, anything they decide to release set in Alola from this point will be claimed to be Stars, and there will be plausible denyability when features do not match up with what Eurogamer's rumor suguessts

2. Regional Formes can be introduced in both Alola and Sinnoh, right? Maybe some Alolan Pokémon would have a different forme in Sinnoh given the distance.

They can, but in the case of Sinnoh, it would be limited to the Unova, Kalos and Alola's pokemom and Pokemon that were found in between Platinum, Diamond and Pearl. As they don't seem to retcon the pokedex for remakes beyond adding later evolutionary relatives, AU or not (and In HGSS they didn't add any of the evolutionary relatives its generation introduced). On the other hand, D/P was notorious for among other thing, not having all the new pokemon they introduced be in the regional pokedex (not just Mythicals, the new Eeveelutions, Gliscor and other then-new evolutions were also excluded until after the League) and even when OrAs included evolutionary relatives, some of the new megastones and or comaptable pokemo were also locked until the post game. So the possibility of there being Sinnoh Regional variants, but not being available until the post game

3. Stars could be just an SM port?

Its possible, and in fact I'd say completly likely for there to be a vanilla S/M port if they were to move to the switch (if only to ensure that players can play all the games in the generation on at least one device). Will it be stars, well I guess that depends, as I said before any Pokemon game set in Alola on the Swill have a 100% possibility of being the rumored title, and arguable being on the switch seems to be more of a selling point than being an update in other aspects. So it is possible that a S/M port with no chnages other than being on the Switch will happen (and that the next games will be Sinnoh remakes, free of the redundancy inherent in having a remake of a game that can be played on the device they are to be developed for, or something else entirley)

 

[Ereshkigal]

The GameCube Virtual Console rumor never specified when the games would be released, so there is absolutely no way of telling that it's wrong just because there is no Virtual Console at launch.

The 3DS rumor from 2009 is a glorified speculation article that was not based on information Eurogamer was directly privy to. It's also much easier to get hardware specs wrong than the existence of a game.

There's no Virtual Console period. Nintendo did their version of "we might do it, but it's not going to be soon" when it comes to the Virtual Console. Last few times I saw Nintendo say that about a product or service, it was cancelled. So until I see otherwise, the Switch Virtual Console is added to that list.

And, actually, the 3DS specs are based on patent and design papers that Nintendo submitted to government agencies. The original design of the 3DS actually did use an Nvidia graphics card; this was revised mere months before the 3DS was released, probably as a result of unexpected hardware problems.

Please. That article was just telling us about the URL, which is not inside information! They merely said that it would come as no surprise.

Telling us about the URL and predicting that there would be a reveal of Stars soon. Seriously, the prediction is the title of the article.

Sometimes they're wrong. That happens. Even developers are sometimes wrong about their products. Ask Blizzard about the games they said were "definitely coming," only to end up cancelled later due to problems they couldn't foresee.

Sure, but you're going on and on about history from 9 years ago as if it were more relevant to the discussion. It's silly.

Eurogamer, in their own article, based their Stars prediction (a third game on a separate console) on history from 18 years ago (the release of Pokemon Yellow). If 9 years is silly, 18 is deserving ridicule.

And that's the problem with dismissing history. You dismiss the entire basis of Eurogamer's article and most of their own evidence for Stars existing. You can't dismiss using history without also removing all of the support for Eurogamer not just randomly making things up on Stars.

The point is if we get multiple games in this generation, each one could introduce regional forms or other kinds of forms. Generation VI had a total of 48 Mega Evolutions (plus three other forms), whereas this generation just has 18 regional variants right now.

They could, but I'm betting they won't. Same amount of money not doing it, and less work. Never forget that human laziness is always a factor in the equation.

1. Nothing is confirmed until Game Freak makes an official announcement. They can't change their mind after that.

Agreed!

2. Regional Formes can be introduced in both Alola and Sinnoh, right? Maybe some Alolan Pokémon would have a different forme in Sinnoh given the distance.

This is actually my thought on that unreleased form of Lycanroc.

3. Stars could be just an SM port?

Based on the information given about how it was produced and the lack of announcement even now, this is actually what I'm suspecting. If it were something like Emerald, we likely would have heard something by now. They typically make their game announcements as of late in February of the year they're to be released. It's now March. It's entirely possible they're waiting until they have a stable build of the engine to announce anything (that really is the hardest part of porting a game), but overall my money is on Stars not being released until next year at the earliest.

Can't say I disagree, but the problem is that since "Stars" is a codename, anything they decide to release set in Alola from this point will be claimed to be Stars, and there will be plausible denyability when features do not match up with what Eurogamer's rumor suguessts

And knowing Game Freak, they pretty much won't confirm or deny anything on the rumor.

Its possible, and in fact I'd say completly likely for there to be a vanilla S/M port if they were to move to the switch (if only to ensure that players can play all the games in the generation on at least one device). Will it be stars, well I guess that depends, as I said before any Pokemon game set in Alola on the Swill have a 100% possibility of being the rumored title, and arguable being on the switch seems to be more of a selling point than being an update in other aspects. So it is possible that a S/M port with no chnages other than being on the Switch will happen (and that the next games will be Sinnoh remakes, free of the redundancy inherent in having a remake of a game that can be played on the device they are to be developed for, or something else entirley)

I could actually see them doing a third game between the ports and the remakes. It would be an easy way to make more money off the Switch players, and also a way to satisfy demand for the third game. Plus, it would give them room to experiment with altering a game title on the Switch in preparation for the remakes.

In any case, I think their next game announcement is going to be quite telling.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

are you like, late to this discussion? i think it's been pretty well established that whatever-their-name from EuroGamer has a solid enough record to be taken seriously, at least until proven otherwise.

I have established that you can't just trust EuroGamer as one source, plus I had a breakdown on how EuroGamer's post is kinda fishy in my opinion.

then don't do it first. if you wanna argue the quality of the arguments rather than have a normal discussion, then make sure your shit don't stink and don't be salty if someone does it to you

Watch the language kid. There may be some young kids on the server, believe it or not. Please calm down, I was angry like you when I was "arguing" with another guy, and that didn't turn out so well. Chill and settle it in a nicer way.

The point is if we get multiple games in this generation, each one could introduce regional forms or other kinds of forms. Generation VI had a total of 48 Mega Evolutions (plus three other forms), whereas this generation just has 18 regional variants right now.

In all honesty I don't like the idea of regional variants for existing regions. If they weren't added in the original games, then why add it now?
Then again, this goes back to the dimension theory. The remakes could just be in another dimension, where they had regional variants...

 

[DoctorWhy]

There's no Virtual Console period.

Wrong, tho.

In all seriousness, that is patently incorrect. Virtual Console is not currently open yet for launch window, but it's 100% going to be there soon. This has been confirmed by multiple Nintendo officials, even if you disregard other mostly-credible sources. Virtual Console, or some version of it that works the same way, has become an absolute staple and Nintendo knows that. There is no VC right now, yes. But it will be there soon, 100%, no ifs or buts. Unless you can provide a source where a Nintendo official is anything but 100% sure of VC happening.

I don't see any reason why they'd skip a Sinnoh remake this Gen, though.

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't, necessarily.

Essentially, it's impossible to tell. Don't get me wrong, I would love to get a Sinnoh remake ASAP. But I think Gen VIII is equally likely to receive a Sinnoh remake. I think it all depends on what happens this year. If we get a continuation of Gen VII on the Switch this year, as predicted by mostly-credible sources, then I think Sinnoh remakes this generation are very likely 2018-2019 as the end of Gen VII.

 

[Ereshkigal]

Wrong, tho.

In all seriousness, that is patently incorrect. Virtual Console is not currently open yet for launch window, but it's 100% going to be there soon. This has been confirmed by multiple Nintendo officials, even if you disregard other mostly-credible sources. Virtual Console, or some version of it that works the same way, has become an absolute staple and Nintendo knows that. There is no VC right now, yes. But it will be there soon, 100%, no ifs or buts.

You mean like how the N64 DD was going to be the next step in gaming for Nintendo? I've heard Nintendo, all the way to the guy in charge, make promises like that before. They've had a pretty spotty track record about keeping them.

If this ends up cancelled? It won't be the first time Nintendo said "it'll definitely be X!" and X never manifested. Far, far, far from the first time. Why do you think it is some of the developers who work for them eventually developed a policy of never developing for the Nintendo home consoles?

I do want the Switch to succeed. But this is Nintendo we're talking about. When it comes to home consoles, they are hands down the most unreliable company on the market.

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't, necessarily.

Essentially, it's impossible to tell. Don't get me wrong, I would love to get a Sinnoh remake ASAP. But I think Gen VIII is equally likely to receive a Sinnoh remake. I think it all depends on what happens this year. If we get a continuation of Gen VII on the Switch this year, as predicted by mostly-credible sources, then I think Sinnoh remakes this generation are very likely 2018-2019 as the end of Gen VII.

I was definitely not thinking this year for the remakes. If they do how I suspect, I'm placing my money on 2019. I do agree it depends a lot on what happens this year.

 

[DoctorWhy]

You mean like how the N64 DD was going to be the next step in gaming for Nintendo? I've heard Nintendo, all the way to the guy in charge, make promises like that before. They've had a pretty spotty track record about keeping them.

If this ends up cancelled? It won't be the first time Nintendo said "it'll definitely be X!" and X never manifested. Far, far, far from the first time. Why do you think it is some of the developers who work for them eventually developed a policy of never developing for the Nintendo home consoles?

Added a line to my original post: "Unless you can provide a source where a Nintendo official is anything but 100% sure of VC happening."

And this is way different than new hardware. Virtual Console is a system that has already been working for years on Wii, 3DS, and Wii U and is easily added for huge profit and little cost, which they have confirmed multiple times to be happening this year.

 

[Esserise]

I don't see any reason why they'd skip a Sinnoh remake this Gen, though.

Because Sinnoh remakes are formulaic and predictable and Kanto/Johto sequels are pretty much 1000x better

 

[Ereshkigal]

Added a line to my original post: "Unless you can provide a source where a Nintendo official is anything but 100% sure of VC happening."

And this is way different than new hardware. Virtual Console is a system that has already been working for years on Wii, 3DS, and Wii U and is easily added for huge profit and little cost, which they have confirmed multiple times to be happening this year.

Not the first time they dropped software that worked for years either. Pokemon has had that happen several times. The utilization of 3D features for the 3DS, which are these days pretty much a memory despite Nintendo's insistence that wouldn't happen (and, yeah, anyone who knows Nintendo saw that coming a mile away).

Nintendo does this constantly. "X is going to be delayed for an undetermined amount of time." "X is still definitely coming! You'll see it! It'll be big!" "Oh yeah, we're still doing X." "Yeah, X isn't coming... We've moved on to Y instead. Sorry for those who wanted X. It sucks to be you." After as many times as they've done that, is it any surprise I don't believe them when they go "Virtual Console is going to be delayed for an undetermined amount of time" and then insist it's still coming?

They make good games, exceedingly excellent portable consoles, and the occasional home console worth speaking of. But when it comes to keeping promises like this, they have all of the credibility of Bernie Madoff insisting he's not running a Ponzi scheme. It might be true this time, but I'm not going to take the risk until I see the result.

 

[Morningstar]

Because Sinnoh remakes are formulaic and predictable and Kanto/Johto sequels are pretty much 1000x better

Satirical or not, this does bring up a good point. We are not entitled to have every region be revisited, as much as i hate to say it...

• Kanto got remade for the simple reason being that the Advance games are incompatible with their predecessors. Resulting in the national dex being harder to complete.
• Johto remakes happened because fans longed to walk with their pokemon, and I'd like to think that spurred them to find other way to interact with them without fights, resulting in The Dream World and Refresh.
• Hoenn remakes were because the precedent caused a memetically huge demand, especially since gen V was skipped over for them.

And Sinnoh remakes are right before Unova remakes. The problem is that Unova is the only region to be the setting for two distinct games, which means Black and White 2 are in a precarious canonical position, and that Game Freak if they get to that point would have the dilemma of what to do with its story, compress it into the Black/White remakes? retcon it out in favor of a shorter delta episode esque plotline? Remake BW2 as well as BW?

It'd seem like something they would at least need some time to think about moving forward, and its possible that they might delay Sinnoh and Unova remakes to buy time for that reason, or that their would decide to shift gears once more and go back to what I decide to call the Indigo (Meta)region (Johto and Kanto) for sequels, and never bother with remakes. or that maybe they would decide to make sequels set int he regions instead of remakes.

If the last scenario happens, then I can see it starting with either a Sequel set in Alola (in this case, potentially being Stars), with an equal chance of Indigo (or at least Kanto) and Sinnoh sequels happening as well (with one of the three being shelved for a later generation).

But to attempt get back on topic. I want to know what predictions did Eurogamer get right? The crux of their credibility has to be a precedent of accurate predictions is it not?

 

[Esserise]

Just for the record, I do think that they'll remake Sinnoh eventually. Just not quite yet.

 

[StandbyForBattle]

Satirical or not, this does bring up a good point. We are not entitled to have every region be revisited, as much as i hate to say it...

• Kanto got remade for the simple reason being that the Advance games are incompatible with their predecessors. Resulting in the national dex being harder to complete.
• Johto remakes happened because fans longed to walk with their pokemon, and I'd like to think that spurred them to find other way to interact with them without fights, resulting in The Dream World and Refresh.
• Hoenn remakes were because the precedent caused a memetically huge demand, especially since gen V was skipped over for them.

And Sinnoh remakes are right before Unova remakes. The problem is that Unova is the only region to be the setting for two distinct games, which means Black and White 2 are in a precarious canonical position, and that Game Freak if they get to that point would have the dilemma of what to do with its story, compress it into the Black/White remakes? retcon it out in favor of a shorter delta episode esque plotline? Remake BW2 as well as BW?

It'd seem like something they would at least need some time to think about moving forward, and its possible that they might delay Sinnoh and Unova remakes to buy time for that reason, or that their would decide to shift gears once more and go back to what I decide to call the Indigo (Meta)region (Johto and Kanto) for sequels, and never bother with remakes. or that maybe they would decide to make sequels set int he regions instead of remakes.

If the last scenario happens, then I can see it starting with either a Sequel set in Alola (in this case, potentially being Stars), with an equal chance of Indigo (or at least Kanto) and Sinnoh sequels happening as well (with one of the three being shelved for a later generation).

But to attempt get back on topic. I want to know what predictions did Eurogamer get right? The crux of their credibility has to be a precedent of accurate predictions is it not?

Gamefreak might keep doing the remakes, I mean they can't leave anything out, for example if they skip the gen 4 remake, or matter of fact they're stop doing remake altogether, that would upset the fans demand for remake, especially for a third game and sequel. For Stars, it might turn out to be third game to stars something similar like Yellow and Platinum (I want it to be like Platinum with a new story and new features), as for sinnoh, whatever gamefreak is cooking up for sinnoh either remake or sequel to diamond/pearl (possibly platinum), we'll be on board, but right they focus on stars, since there is no telling when they release sinnoh remake/sequel. All points is good though

Just for the record, I do think that they'll remake Sinnoh eventually. Just not quite yet.

Maybe in 2018 or 2019, Who knows, but now my mind is on Stars

 

[Lyrebird]

I mean with the accessibility of all Pokemon games at the moment and integration of virtual console, the need for a remake might be less and less.