News Pokemon XY & Z Discussion

[DS0308]

The problem with using SLV as an example is that you're using evidence from the dub to argue about how things happen in the Japanese version.

Just something else, I hate it when I make a theory and within a few hours something comes out an proves me wrong, lol. I had a closer look at the trailer, seems like Ash-Greninja is actually like a pseudo-ME in the sense that it's activated in battle, meaning it's not permanent. When Ash calls Greninja to use "Waterfall" (we'll say it's that for now) it's a regular Greninja to start, then you see the red glow and transformation happen. I'll be damned...

EDIT: Once again I take too long and someone beats me to it. Sigh...

 

[Piplup]

You're getting too worked up about technical details. The official website lists all the BW subseries on the same page, and it actually separates Da! (which lasted 20 episodes) from the rest of Season 2.

I think it's more of them trying to organize it nicely based on sagas like them breaking OS to Kanto/Orange/Johto parts even though they're all one series (although oddly they don't separate Hoenn from BF) so they're separating Unova from the Decolore Islands, rather than saying anything cause they never treated DA as a new series.

There is absolutely nothing preventing them from changing the series name in early 2016, which could definitely include dropping the Z.

Technically yes they can do whatever they want, but then what was the point? They will definitely not revert back to just "XY" becasue that sereis ends. I can't see why they wouldn't stick to "XY&Z" when it is very likely that Z part is hinting at the upcoming Z game that will want to continue promote after its release. I really think XY&Z is just the BWS2 of this generation. They can give a new poster without restarting it as a new series and they can add an N/DA-like subtitle if they ever feel the need to do so.

 

[Necrozma]

Reverting to XY would definitely be silly. If it was an arc, they could have easily called it Pokemon XY: Episode N or Pokémon XY: Zygarde's Awakening. Episode N was a subtitle, this seems like an actual title change.

 

[Silktree]

I can't see why they wouldn't stick to "XY&Z" when it is very likely that Z part is hinting at the upcoming Z game that will want to continue promote after its release. I really think XY&Z is just the BWS2 of this generation. They can give a new poster without restarting it as a new series and they can add an N/DA-like subtitle if they ever feel the need to do so.

Therein lies the problem. You're treating a Z version as if it were confirmed, when it makes no sense not to announce it alongside the new series. Game announcements aren't supposed to be blatantly predictable; they know that almost everyone is expecting a Z version (Masuda mentioned it last year in an interview and said that it wouldn't be surprising), so they have nothing to gain from keeping it a secret if it actually exists.

Nevermind the fact that Complete Forme doesn't even look like a Z.

 

[Elementar]

Well, as long as we're getting new content. It will stay as XY&Z for a while, then we will see what happens when we get to the league.
Ash Greninja won't be like a pseudo-mega. It says this change is because of their bond, occurring once in several hundred years. It will probably be like AZ and his Floette. I guess we will just see it all when it starts October 29.

 

[Piplup]

Masuda's wording could also be taken as "we didn't want to release Z right after XY" rather than "not releasing Z at all". Also... I wouldn't put it past him to contradict him own statements.
I do believe we're getting a Z and that they decided to let the anime start it first to create hype. Anyway, the game announcement should come sometime next month so hopefully it won't be too long until we know what's up.
Either way, even if, say, there's no Z game... what is your suggestion? They won't go back to "XY", that series is over. The trailer and official site clearly refer to XY&Z as a brand new series, they never did that with N/DA which were just treated as in-series arcs.

 

[Elementar]

Masuda's wording could also be taken as "we didn't want to release Z right after XY" rather than "not releasing Z at all". Also... I wouldn't put it past him to contradict him own statements.
I do believe we're getting a Z and that they decided to let the anime start it first to create hype. Anyway, the game announcement should come sometime next month so hopefully it won't be too long until we know what's up.
Either way, even if, say, there's no Z game... what is your suggestion? They won't go back to "XY", that series is over. The trailer and official site clearly refer to XY&Z as a brand new series, they never did that with N/DA which were just treated as in-series arcs.

By that, do you mean what game?
Some people suggest an ORAS and XY mix, but I'm 97.3% sure we'll get a Z. There's no other way really. They're not going to name the anime like that without a reason. If the new game isn't Z, how will they include Zygarde? I completely agree that the game has to be Z, and that XY is a completely different series to XY&Z.

 

[Silktree]

Either way, even if, say, there's no Z game... what is your suggestion? They won't go back to "XY", that series is over. The trailer and official site clearly refer to XY&Z as a brand new series, they never did that with N/DA which were just treated as in-series arcs.

I don't really care if they will change the name, but at the very least the poster will be replaced (with the opening getting redone) once the Zygarde arc is over, which I simply don't see taking too long given how strongly it's tied to the Anistar area.

I don't see the problem with something like "XY Challenge" for the conclusion of the Kalos story. These name changes are just about hype.

 

[Elementar]

Oh, that's what you mean by it.
I reckon XY&Z will stay, with something like 'challenge' after it. As Piplup said, they won't go back to XY. Maybe it might just be called Z, without the XY. But that would be unlikely.

 

[Jaypom]

I have a feeling the evolution of Noibat will just turn it into a really large baby and I love that xD Considering it has the idea that Ash is it's parent and will probably fly over and crush him affectionately a lot xD

 

[DS0308]

Ash Greninja won't be like a pseudo-mega. It says this change is because of their bond, occurring once in several hundred years. It will probably be like AZ and his Floette. I guess we will just see it all when it starts October 29.

That Floette honestly bears no resemblance to AZ. You do also realise that they've stated in both the games and the anime that a strong bond is required for Mega Evolution.

But think of it this way, assuming this is a new concept that will appear in the games, why can't this be a new sort of Mega Evolution introduced in a potential Pokemon Z, like Primal Reversion was introduced in ORAS (also Rayquaza's Mega Evolution to an extent). Each of the Gen 6 games would introduce a new form of ME in this case (including XY starting it). While it will be clear come around October 29 I certainly think that this isn't out of the realms of possibility, given how the strong bond thing connects the two ideas.

 

[Elementar]

Ash Greninja won't be like a pseudo-mega. It says this change is because of their bond, occurring once in several hundred years. It will probably be like AZ and his Floette. I guess we will just see it all when it starts October 29.

That Floette honestly bears no resemblance to AZ. You do also realise that they've stated in both the games and the anime that a strong bond is required for Mega Evolution.

But think of it this way, assuming this is a new concept that will appear in the games, why can't this be a new sort of Mega Evolution introduced in a potential Pokemon Z, like Primal Reversion was introduced in ORAS (also Rayquaza's Mega Evolution to an extent). Each of the Gen 6 games would introduce a new form of ME in this case (including XY starting it). While it will be clear come around October 29 I certainly think that this isn't out of the realms of possibility, given how the strong bond thing connects the two ideas.

Yeah... Let's just wait and see. But I wonder why this bond thing wouldn't happen with any of his other Pokémon? He has the strongest bond with Pikachu.

 

[dman_dustin]

You're fine with it because it's the end result that matters to you.

No, I'm fine with it because they are actually doing something with Noibat, instead of leaving it in its Poke ball to rot, making its capture pointless.

..............

So yeah I'm fine with Noibat doing at least something and then evolving,

But I'm definitely not going to act like a game elitist (to anyone who is) who is upset that Ash's Noibat is evolving so quickly when it take a long time in the games. This is the anime, not the games. Like I said Pokemon can evolve whenever they will in the anime. It's happened MANY times before.

 

[Piplup]

Yeah... Let's just wait and see. But I wonder why this bond thing wouldn't happen with any of his other Pokémon? He has the strongest bond with Pikachu.

Maybe Pikachu is just unable to perform that kind of transformation, while Greninja is one of few who can do this. (assuming this is based on something in the upcoming game, I bet the other two Pokémon capable of doing it will be the other two Kalos starters, maybe even restricted to the individual you recieved as your starter in the game since you'd supposedly have the strongest bond with your starter)

As for the Noibat talk... while I'd rather it not evolve TOO soon, I don't mind it that much if they do evolve it quickly. I don't know, it's like I don't care about anything anymore lol... I just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is... I stopped expecting or judging too much. The only thing I was really looking forward to is Mega Charizard Y which I was convinced would happen, now I'm not sure anymore and while I still hope for it to happen, I guess I don't truly care that much if it never happens...
I guess what I'm trying to say is: my advice to all of you is to adopt this mentality, hope for the best but be ready for the worst and just stop caring too much and enjoy the show for what it is. (Of course, that's just a friendly advice, you all can keep discussing whatever you want)

 

[Silktree]

The only thing I was really looking forward to is Mega Charizard Y which I was convinced would happen, now I'm not sure anymore and while I still hope for it to happen, I guess I don't truly care that much if it never happens...

I see it happening after this arc in time for the league. They could have just showcased Mega Charizard Y via one of the Mega Evolution acts, but they didn't.

 

[Piplup]

The only thing I was really looking forward to is Mega Charizard Y which I was convinced would happen, now I'm not sure anymore and while I still hope for it to happen, I guess I don't truly care that much if it never happens...

I see it happening after this arc in time for the league. They could have just showcased Mega Charizard Y via one of the Mega Evolution acts, but they didn't.

Yeah, that's what I think/hope they'll do. I'm just trying to be very cautious and lower my expectations so I won't be too let down if they don't do it.
I mean, as you said, they clearly avoided featuring Chari Y and I can't see any reason for that unless they wanted to keep it for Ash.

 

[Johtohfiller]

Yeah... Let's just wait and see. But I wonder why this bond thing wouldn't happen with any of his other Pokémon? He has the strongest bond with Pikachu.

Maybe Pikachu is just unable to perform that kind of transformation, while Greninja is one of few who can do this. (assuming this is based on something in the upcoming game, I bet the other two Pokémon capable of doing it will be the other two Kalos starters, maybe even restricted to the individual you recieved as your starter in the game since you'd supposedly have the strongest bond with your starter)

Yeah, the Greninja is probably a game feature, and just for Kalos Pokemon since it sounds like it's related to the AZ Floette somehow. I'm wondering if the other starters will get alternate formes too.

 

[Piplup]

I'll never understand why people insist the Greninja thing is related to AZ's Floette. I see absolutely no relations at all.
AZ's Floette holds a different flower probably due to these being the common flowers of that era 3000 years ago.
AZ's Floette is not going through any form changes like Ash-Greninja will be doing, it is stuck in its usual form.
AZ's Floette is unique in having different stats and being unable to evolve/breed, potentially an effect of having the ultimate weapon used on it and recieving eternal life.

 

[Solar Beam]

Ash Greninja won't be like a pseudo-mega. It says this change is because of their bond, occurring once in several hundred years. It will probably be like AZ and his Floette. I guess we will just see it all when it starts October 29.

That Floette honestly bears no resemblance to AZ. You do also realise that they've stated in both the games and the anime that a strong bond is required for Mega Evolution.

But think of it this way, assuming this is a new concept that will appear in the games, why can't this be a new sort of Mega Evolution introduced in a potential Pokemon Z, like Primal Reversion was introduced in ORAS (also Rayquaza's Mega Evolution to an extent). Each of the Gen 6 games would introduce a new form of ME in this case (including XY starting it). While it will be clear come around October 29 I certainly think that this isn't out of the realms of possibility, given how the strong bond thing connects the two ideas.

Yeah... Let's just wait and see. But I wonder why this bond thing wouldn't happen with any of his other Pokémon? He has the strongest bond with Pikachu.

Pikachu can't mega evolve because it's not fully evolved. Also, if Pikachu does this, wouldn't people just bash it and accuse him of being a special snowflake for being the mascot?

 

[dman_dustin]

I'll never understand why people insist the Greninja thing is related to AZ's Floette. I see absolutely no relations at all.

Because Ash Greninja is rare and has only happened once a 100 years ago, so its a very uncommon thing to happen.

AZ's Floette holds a different flower probably due to these being the common flowers of that era 3000 years ago.

Keep in mind the flower is NOT the only thing that's different, its coloring is also different. Plus you're not explaining the physical characteristic of Ash Greninja with that 4 bladed object on its back, which is NOT an attack since its in both images of Ash Greninja using what looks like Aerial Ace on the poster, and the Ash Greninja Sugimori stock photo.

AZ's Floette is not going through any form changes like Ash-Greninja will be doing, it is stuck in its usual form.

Of course, now that we know that's the case, clearly it is UNLIKE AZ's Floette, doesn't mean it wasn't a valid argument before we knew Ash Greninja was temporary.

AZ's Floette is unique in having different stats and being unable to evolve/breed, potentially an effect of having the ultimate weapon used on it and recieving eternal life.

While I agree, it still looked different BEFORE being exposed to the Ultimate Weapon, so yes that will explain WHY it is the way it is.

A Lot of people were thinking the same thing, or something similar was going to happen to Ash Greninja, that it was exposed to something resulting in a permanent change.

While it can now, no longer being compared to AZ's Floette, it doesn't change that it was at least possible until we understood Ash Greninja more.