Speculation Sevii Islands in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

[Phoenixon]

Isn't the Sevii Islands exclusive to FR/LG? Why would a cluster of landmasses suddenly disappear from one region to reappear in another?

(Note: I don't really support either side of the argument on whether they should appear or not. Sure, it would be cool if they did, but they could just add Hoenn islands instead....)
They wouldn't make it "disappear" from one region. The Sevii islands themselves could be considered a mini-region, it's not THAT close to Kanto. And besides, to access them in Kanto, you need to use a ferry anyway. So a ferry could also be used in remakes to go to them as well, IF they did appear in ORAS.

I don't think Red catching Mewtwo is canon. Zekrom & Reshiram are the only one who were really catched.

Correct. Also, assuming only one Mewtwo was created (which may be a bad assumption), it would be impossible for it to be caught and then also appear in Kalos.

 

[Champion Red]

I don't think Red catching Mewtwo is canon. Zekrom & Reshiram are the only one who were really catched.

Correct. Also, assuming only one Mewtwo was created (which may be a bad assumption), it would be impossible for it to be caught and then also appear in Kalos.

That's probably right, I'm just going off the Origins canon, since its the most recent telling of Red's story. My own headcanon for Mewtwo is that Team Flare had some experiments in artificial pokemon, and used a lot of the research from the Pokemon Mansion, which also led to the creation of Mewtwo's mega stone's. The new Mewtwo escaped, and Wulfric found it and helped in settle into Pokemon Village, assigning a guard to keep an eye on it and protect it from Team Flare.

 

[DasManiac]

Shoal Cave can only contain so many Ice types so Four Island would make sense. Also geographically the Sevii Islands are a midpoint between Hoenn and Kanto. That's evidenced by the fact that you can travel to both Navel Rock and Birth Island not only in FRLG but in Emerald as well. After all the S.S. Tidal is clearly not a ship on the level of the S.S. Anne and is only really used for transporting the player across the Hoenn region. It can go further (as evidenced by the fact that it can take you to Faraway Island) but it's generally not used for that purpose.

There could be a simple explanation for why you go to the Sevii Islands, Looker. After you return home, you get a call from like Professor Birch who tells you to meet him at his lab. There you meet Looker and he explains to you that he believes some of Team Magma/Aqua's admins may have escaped to the Sevii Islands. He asks you (the player character) to come along and help him out.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Shoal Cave can only contain so many Ice types so Four Island would make sense.

Well, let's see. Each area usually has around 5-6 Pokemon in them (sometimes more, but that's about average), and there's a different distribution on the bottom floor, which opens up room for another 5-6. So in theory, it has room for about 5-10 Ice type Pokemon, which is about all we need.

 

[SeanWheeler]

If Shoal Cave included non-Hoenn Pokémon, it would have to be a part that's unaccessable before the Elite Four. Personally, I'd prefer Icefall Cave. If I run out of room in Icefall Cave, maybe I'd add more floors to Shoal Cave.

 

[Fairy Ice Ricky]

Isn't the Sevii Islands exclusive to FR/LG? How could a cluster of landmasses suddenly disappear from one region to reappear in another?

It wouldn't be a disappearing act; two of the Islands are already accessible from Hoenn via the S.S. Tidal, as seen in Pokémon Emerald.

Also, it doesn't make an sense. The Sevii Island are just a little south from Kanto, but they're pretty far away from Hoenn.

Some of them are also pretty far from Kanto, so that argument is weak. They're meant to be accessed via ferries, so the distance is irrelevant. The islands aren't even close to each other, which is why they were divided into three groups.

Some may be far from Kanto, but all of them are far from Hoenn. Also, the distance is not irrelevant, they were linked to Kanto because the majority of the islands are close to Kanto. Why not give Hoenn access to a new island/set of small islands if you want an island chain so much? It gives a new place for players to explore without ties to any old areas.

Navel Rock and Birth Island were both close enough to Hoenn for the player character to access them via the S.S. Tidal in Pokémon Emerald. And according to the Town Map for both Navel Rock and Birth Island, these islands are in the middle of the Sevii Island Archipelago, so there's no reason to believe that the Sevii Islands are significantly farther from Hoenn than they are from Kanto.

(And let's keep in mind that the one S.S. Tidal in Emerald is apparently doing the work of two ferries in FRLG--why should the S.S. Tidal have any problems accessing the rest of the Sevii Islands?)

I guess that if these islands are in ORAS, there will be some major changes, like Four Islands being an icy Islands

Not necessarily; the Sevii Islands were already located in a more tropical location in FRLG, and the icy cave was still there. Four Island was already an anomaly to begin with.

 

[Silktree]

My own headcanon for Mewtwo is that Team Flare had some experiments in artificial pokemon, and used a lot of the research from the Pokemon Mansion, which also led to the creation of Mewtwo's mega stone's. The new Mewtwo escaped, and Wulfric found it and helped in settle into Pokemon Village, assigning a guard to keep an eye on it and protect it from Team Flare.

But nothing in XY links Mewtwo to Team Flare. If there were a second Mewtwo, I don't see why there would be zero explanation about its creation.

We already saw that Red didn't have Mewtwo by the time he retreated to Mt. Silver, and in HGSS, Mewtwo even returned to Cerulean Cave. The most plausible explanation is that Red simply released Mewtwo and the legendary birds, which could have easily ended up in Kalos years later on. Now, if ORAS were to shed light on the events between FRLG and HGSS, Red could show up with Mewtwo and then release it just as N did with his dragon in B2W2. The difference is that Mewtwo wouldn't be catchable again (which would be redundant) but rather it would become free again. Such an event could explain the collapse of Cerulean Cave and possibly even the creation of the Mewtwonite items. It might also foreshadow Red's decision to isolate himself just like Mewtwo.

 

[Champion Red]

My own headcanon for Mewtwo is that Team Flare had some experiments in artificial pokemon, and used a lot of the research from the Pokemon Mansion, which also led to the creation of Mewtwo's mega stone's. The new Mewtwo escaped, and Wulfric found it and helped in settle into Pokemon Village, assigning a guard to keep an eye on it and protect it from Team Flare.

But nothing in XY links Mewtwo to Team Flare. If there were a second Mewtwo, I don't see why there would be zero explanation about its creation.

We already saw that Red didn't have Mewtwo by the time he retreated to Mt. Silver, and in HGSS, Mewtwo even returned to Cerulean Cave. The most plausible explanation is that Red simply released Mewtwo and the legendary birds, which could have easily ended up in Kalos years later on. Now, if ORAS were to shed light on the events between FRLG and HGSS, Red could show up with Mewtwo and then release it just as N did with his dragon in B2W2. The difference is that Mewtwo wouldn't be catchable again (which would be redundant) but rather it would become free again. Such an event could explain the collapse of Cerulean Cave and possibly even the creation of the Mewtwonite items. It might also foreshadow Red's decision to isolate himself just like Mewtwo.

Gold and Silver and HeartGold and SoulSilver probably didn't take place at separate times, seeing as its a remake, Mewtwo was probably still their just for gameplay purposes. And Red could have had his legendaries in Pallet Town. Also, in the anime it was clearly referenced Team Plasma had something to do with the creation of the second Mewtwo, so its not a new concept, and its certainly not unlikely. Plus Origins is the most recent retelling of the story, for all we know they'll make a second series of it and prove one of our theories wrong or both of them.

 

[Silktree]

Gold and Silver and HeartGold and SoulSilver probably didn't take place at separate times, seeing as its a remake, Mewtwo was probably still their just for gameplay purposes.

Even if Mewtwo's return isn't supposed to be canon, which is a convenient assumption, Cerulean Cave definitely collapsed at one point. That event wasn't shown in Origins, which implies that something happened with Mewtwo later on.

And Red could have had his legendaries in Pallet Town.

So he kept the legendaries in a box? That doesn't make sense. And what about the legendary birds? Are there more versions of them in Sinnoh and Kalos even though Professor Oak at least said about the former case that they migrated from Kanto?

Also, in the anime it was clearly referenced Team Plasma had something to do with the creation of the second Mewtwo, so its not a new concept, and its certainly not unlikely.

The anime never tied the second Mewtwo to Team Plasma, and it has no bearing on the games either way. By that logic, the original Mewtwo is related to Team Rocket just because that was the case in the anime, but we know better than that. You can't just say that it's likely Team Flare created a second Mewtwo without any supporting evidence.

 

[Champion Red]

Even if Mewtwo's return isn't supposed to be canon, which is a convenient assumption, Cerulean Cave definitely collapsed. That event wasn't shown in Origins, which implies that something happened with Mewtwo later on.

And Red could have had his legendaries in Pallet Town.

So he kept the legendaries in a box? That doesn't make sense. And what about the legendary birds? Are there more versions of them in Sinnoh and Kalos even though Professor Oak at least said about the former case that they migrated from Kanto?

Also, in the anime it was clearly referenced Team Plasma had something to do with the creation of the second Mewtwo, so its not a new concept, and its certainly not unlikely.

The anime never tied the second Mewtwo to Team Plasma, and it has no bearing on the games either way. By that logic, the original Mewtwo is related to Team Rocket just because that was the case in the anime, but we know better than that. You can't just say that it's likely Team Flare created a second Mewtwo without any supporting evidence.

I suppose you're correct. But if it IS a second Mewtwo, a Team Flare creation is one of the more likely choices (Other then as you said, Red releasing it and the birds). And I'm fairly certain the Anime showed that there were multiple legendary birds, I may be wrong though.
EDIT: Actually

After returning to Kanto from the Sevii Islands, Red catches the Legendary birds: Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres. He learns of Mewtwo, the only Kanto Pokémon he has not caught. Red makes his way to Cerulean Cave, where he finds and catches Mewtwo. With that, Red has completed the Kanto Pokédex.

That's what Bulbapedia says.

 

[Joshawott]

I think a better example in regards to the canonicity of legendary captures would be that of Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza. If I remember correctly, HeartGold/SoulSilver directly references the events of Ruby/Sapphire, stating that afterwards, Groudon and Kyogre returned to their slumber in the Embedded Tower. So therefore, it's pretty clear-cut that Brendan/May catching Groudon/Kyogre is not canon, so therefore, why should Red catching Mewtwo?

 

[Silktree]

And I'm fairly certain the Anime showed that there were multiple legendary birds, I may be wrong though.

The anime has never been faithful to the games. It's one thing to refer to Origins in this kind of discussion, but the anime is a completely different story.

After returning to Kanto from the Sevii Islands, Red catches the Legendary birds: Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres. He learns of Mewtwo, the only Kanto Pokémon he has not caught. Red makes his way to Cerulean Cave, where he finds and catches Mewtwo. With that, Red has completed the Kanto Pokédex.

That's what Bulbapedia says.

And? That's just a description of what the player did in the games (or rather had the option of doing), which roughly coincides with what Red did in Origins (except he wasn't even shown on the Sevii Islands). We're discussing what happened later.

If I remember correctly, HeartGold/SoulSilver directly references the events of Ruby/Sapphire, stating that afterwards, Groudon and Kyogre returned to their slumber in the Embedded Tower.

They didn't reference the events of Ruby/Sapphire or Emerald, but rather the ancient past (the original battle between Groudon and Kyogre). It is safe to assume that the Embedded Tower's Weather trio are and the same as Hoenn's (especially since Professor Oak refers to them as being the legendaries spoken of in the Hoenn legend), but we don't know whether or not Brendan/May ever caught them. They could have simply released them before HGSS. And even if they never caught them, that doesn't mean that Red didn't catch Mewtwo. Origins was mostly faithful to the games and did show that Mewtwo was caught, which doesn't mean that it couldn't have ended up in Kalos years after that event.

 

[Jun]

There are not several legendary birds, they just decided to roam since HGSS. I don't think Brendan & May catched Kyogre/Groudon but they fight them and stop them.
I think the only legendaries who aren't in a single copy are the Regi Trio (but like the legendary birds they may be moved), and the Creation Trio (Mysti Stage).
If you look at the official timeline, Mewtwo can't be in ORAS because he didn't move between FR/LG and HGSS.

 

[Silktree]

If you look at the official timeline, Mewtwo can't be in ORAS because he didn't move between FR/LG and HGSS.

We're discussing the possibility that Mewtwo will show up alongside Red. We don't know what exactly these two were doing between FRLG and HGSS, so I am not sure what you're getting at. We do know that Mewtwo didn't just stay in Cerulean Cave the entire time, if at all.

I think the only legendaries who aren't in a single copy are the Regi Trio (but like the legendary birds they may be moved)

I think that the Regis have the most questionable events outside Hoenn. In Sinnoh, they were unlocked by the Movie 11 Regigigas, which didn't even have an in-game origin. In Unova, they were unlocked by using the Unova Link feature, which was also used for rotating between White Forest and Black City. How can something like that be explained in-universe?

It does seem that there are two Heatran, though, as I don't see how it could have moved from Sinnoh to Unova. But it's the only legendary that can be either male or female, so it was an anomaly to begin with.

 

[Jun]

If they bring back de Sevii Islands, it could be some month (not long) after Red visiting these islands. So with Pokemon Origins, Red catches Mewtwo. Perhaps in these games, we see Red again (before HGSS) with Mewtwo and they may explain why Red released Mewtwo in the Cerulean after.
Yep for Heatran, Sinnoh and Unova are far away, I can't think about an explanation.

 

[Silktree]

Perhaps in these games, we see Red again (before HGSS) with Mewtwo and they may explain why Red released Mewtwo in the Cerulean after.

Yep. That's what I've been saying should happen.

Yep for Heatran, Sinnoh and Unova are far away, I can't think about an explanation.

I would think that one Heatran would be male and the other would be female, and they might be connected despite being so far apart. But it's Heatran, so it doesn't exactly have a compelling story.

 

[Jun]

I don't know about the legendary birds, I don't think having Moltres in Mt Silver in HGSS is a coincidence. That would mean that he released Moltres last.
ANother thing is that instead of replacing the Safari Park with the Friend Safari, they would replace the Pokemon Day Care in Four Island with the Friend Safari. I don't know think that they would allow having two Pokemon Day Care in one game.

 

[Silktree]

I don't know about the legendary birds, I don't think having Moltres in Mt Silver in HGSS is a coincidence. That would mean that he released Moltres last.

I've never thought about that. It's also possible that Moltres came to Mt. Silver because it could feel the presence of its past trainer.

ANother thing is that instead of replacing the Safari Park with the Friend Safari, they would replace the Pokemon Day Care in Four Island with the Friend Safari. I don't know think that they would allow having two Pokemon Day Care in one game.

That would work nicely. I don't see them removing the Hoenn Safari Zone considering that it's needed for the Hoenn Pokédex.

 

[Vivillon]

I kind of hope they don't put the Sevii Islands back. It was bad enough that they put the Sevii Islands in FR/LG instead of the Orange Islands, which would have been MUCH more awesome. The Sevii Islands would have no relevance to Hoenn at all, and thus an impractical use of Pokemon's time that they could use on other things, such as new Battle Frontier facilities and such.

 

[Silktree]

The Sevii Islands would have no relevance to Hoenn at all,

They should complement Hoenn in terms of Pokémon and features as well as providing a post-game quest, which is the purpose they served for Kanto in FRLG. Define "no relevance".

such as new Battle Frontier facilities and such.

7 facilities were quite enough for most players. I doubt that most people took advantage of all of them.