Theory: Gen VI is in two parts (read first post)

[Lysson]

Once I completed XY it felt somewhat incomplete, the major thing that I felt missing was a sub legendary trio which then got me thinking.

The evidence:
-Zygarde. In most main series games after the climax happens, nature shifts.And what legendary Pokemon loves the ecosystem? In ORAS this was very much so shown after Aqua/Magma's mishaps with their legend. So in XY where a powerful weapon discharged energy this would have to have had an impact on the natural balance of the region which would cause Pokemon to migrate to it or appear as one of your goals is to find all the native Pokemon of the region so this would tie in neatly with the next Kalos game and possibly be a new storyline.

-

Yveltal, along with Xerneas, was designed by art designers Ken Sugimori and Yusuke Ohmura. Initial design for the two Legendary Pokémon was started by Sugimori, but he encountered 'artist's block', having a hard time coming up with concepts. For the first time, he gave the work over to another designer, Ohmura. Ohmura furthered the designs, after which Sugimori resumed to finish them.

I found this in Yveltal's trivia that got me thinking. Gen VI doesn't have that many Pokemon and fans complained of too many in Gen V and of Gamefreak 'running out of ideas' so what better way to delay Gen VII, where they'd have to make more Pokemon and potential 'running out of ideas', then by splitting a Gen in half? Argument scrapped. Gamefreak has a lot more then just 3 or 4 designers.

-Lack of sub legendary trio. This struck me as odd, I have discussed it with people and they have always said it is because the genie trio make up for it in Gen V but I do not believe this is the case. The sub legendary trio usually ties in with the plot to some degree (can't think of how the bird trio did in Gen I though) but the genie trio had none but had it to a degree in Dream Radar... which is a spin-off. This would mean the sub legendary trio will be added in the next Kalos game and tie in somehow with the story, it could be like how the Lake trio did in Gen IV.


-Not giving XY patches to deal with new megas, moves and abilities of ORAS. This means the next game will not be fully compatible with ORAS and XY and will probably add new megas, or better, new Pokemon.

Why would Gamefreak do this?
-Money. They created a sequel game, B2W2 which if it wasn't on a dying console probably would have sold more due to it having a new storyline as a lot of people will skip the first game of the new gen to buy the complete one, like how people skipped Diamond and Pearl to buy Platnimun and what would sell more then a game with a new story and more all new Pokemon?

-To avoid more artist's block. If they can extend Gen VI's life then the better it is for them as they then don't have to create more Pokemon and I'd imagine creating legendaries and starters is very hard. Scrapped to poor evidence and poor argument.

-Expand Gen VI's lifespan. I don't think Gen VII will be on the 3DS but all of Gen VI will. Gen VI has a pitiful amount of spin-off games and none are particular noteworthy but if Gen VI lasts as long as it can then they can add more spin-offs and possibly more remakes/sequels to older games.

-Do something new. Gamefreak are obsessed with deleting/taking out things and do go back on their word (Black and White 2) and they like to be innovative so why not do something different that could sell?

EDIT: A spot of clarification: I don't think Gamefreak actually is running out of ideas, I see that if they were to split this Gen in half (we're currently in 6.5 as I see it) then they can shove those comments out of the window.
2nd EDIT: Argument for the reason that only 72 Pokemon were added to this Gen is because of artist's block has been scrapped as I was a little silly and didn't think things completely through.


So what do you think? Could Gamefreak have split Gen VI? What will the next game be like as a result and how would it all fit in?

 

[Saucedo]

Not quite sure what you mean by split in 2, but I think you are right that the new games will contain new megas and story so as to prolong Gen VI.
Game Freak have well and truly run out of ideas hence why they have only 72 new Pokemon and are hoping to pass off Megas, ie a rehash of old ideas as new Pokemon, when in reality they are little more than formes.

I like the idea of Z taking place after X or Y, they could either bring back Memory link, or just ask you "hey remember 2 years ago, did the weapon give life or death" (ie was Xerneas used or Yveltal.

I think Zygarde's 2 hidden moves will also split off into Mega Zygarde X and Mega Zygarde Y, which further hints at Z being after XY, and hence gen Vi split like gen V was.

 

[Zeb]

I don't really understand your explanation of it being in two parts. You're saying that the next games (the second part?) will add a bunch of new Pokemon? But you also say that they are delaying Gen VII due to artist's block, so how are they suddenly designing loads of new Pokemon for this second part, if they have artist's block and want to delay Gen VII?

Artist's block could be seen as a reason for less Pokemon, sure, but then you see that Ken Sugimori isn't the only person who designs Pokemon, so I'm sure between the entire staff they could have made more Pokemon without struggling if they had wanted to. And there's no quote saying all the artists were suffering with artists block. It was specifically Sugimori and the two box mascots. I imagine Sugimori was struggling with the box mascots specifically because they need to have REALLY good designs (they are on the covers afterall) AND fit with their vision in terms of story/theme and in this particular instance he hit artist's block, which happens from time to time.

So what do you think? Could Gamefreak have split Gen VI? What will the next game be like as a result and how would it all fit in?

The final question leads me to believe this thread falls under the other giant thread we have: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f323/generation-vi-future-169739/ since this is ultimately dealing with the future of Gen VI.

I'm not gonna say it won't happen, because I can't say for certain, but I think this idea about new Pokemon being added mid-gen is people grasping at straws because they are disappointed with so few new Pokemon.

Game Freak have well and truly run out of ideas hence why they have only 72 new Pokemon

Please stop. This is such asinine view point and so many people are spouting it lately it's unreal.

How are Megas running out of ideas? Do Megas not require thought put into them? Megas go through design changes just like every Pokemon does. I've said a million times now, the reason they most likely introduced less new Pokemon this gen is because they don't want to burn Pokemon out too fast - there is going to become a point when people say "there's too many Pokemon" when there actually will be too many if they continue adding 150 each gen. So adding less means they can milk the franchise for longer. And they also planned on including Megas, which are essentially evolutions just without a new name; they will have considered those a good substitute on top of 70 new Pokemon as they don't increase the dex count. Seriously, just think about the possible reasons they can have for introducing less new Pokemon than immediately running around shouting about them running out of ideas.

 

[Saucedo]

I don't really understand your explanation of it being in two parts. You're saying that the next games (the second part?) will add a bunch of new Pokemon? But you also say that they are delaying Gen VII due to artist's block, so how are they suddenly designing loads of new Pokemon for this second part, if they have artist's block and want to delay Gen VII?

Artist's block could be seen as a reason for less Pokemon, sure, but then you see that Ken Sugimori isn't the only person who designs Pokemon, so I'm sure between the entire staff they could have made more Pokemon without struggling if they had wanted to. And there's no quote saying all the artists were suffering with artists block. It was specifically Sugimori and the two box mascots. I imagine Sugimori was struggling with the box mascots specifically because they need to have REALLY good designs (they are on the covers afterall) AND fit with their vision in terms of story/theme and in this particular instance he hit artist's block, which happens from time to time.



The final question leads me to believe this thread falls under the other giant thread we have: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f323/generation-vi-future-169739/ since this is ultimately dealing with the future of Gen VI.

I'm not gonna say it won't happen, because I can't say for certain, but I think this idea about new Pokemon being added mid-gen is people grasping at straws because they are disappointed with so few new Pokemon.

Game Freak have well and truly run out of ideas hence why they have only 72 new Pokemon

Please stop. This is such asinine view point and so many people are spouting it lately it's unreal.

How are Megas running out of ideas? Do Megas not require thought put into them? Megas go through design changes just like every Pokemon does. I've said a million times now, the reason they most likely introduced less new Pokemon this gen is because they don't want to burn Pokemon out too fast - there is going to become a point when people say "there's too many Pokemon" when there actually will be too many if they continue adding 150 each gen. So adding less means they can milk the franchise for longer. And they also planned on including Megas, which are essentially evolutions just without a new name; they will have considered those a good substitute on top of 70 new Pokemon as they don't increase the dex count. Seriously, just think about the possible reasons they can have for introducing less new Pokemon than immediately running around shouting about them running out of ideas.

Mega Evolutions are a cheap easy filler way. They made 72 new Pokemon and rather than add 28 others, which would take time to think of a concept and design, they just went back to old designs, said how can we change them a little and package them as new.

Then they did the same in ORAS, I mean Mega Sableye come on, they just made its jewel bigger and changed its eyes. Mega Slowbro, they just had the shell engulf the Pokemon.
These are cheap cop outs, and come across as such.

 

[Jun]

I think you're quite right, the Gen 6 feels somewhat incomplete. My theory is that next game will feature 2 Zygarde as mascots with ~60 new Pokemon.
There's plenty of possibilities, they could make a game featuring the 2 kalos, the one with the Kalos war, the one without the Kalos war, with a key Pokemon allowing us to travel betweens the 2 kalos.

 

[Zeb]

Mega Evolutions are a cheap easy filler way. They made 72 new Pokemon and rather than add 28 others, which would take time to think of a concept and design, they just went back to old designs, said how can we change them a little and package them as new.

Then they did the same in ORAS, I mean Mega Sableye come on, they just made its jewel bigger and changed its eyes. Mega Slowbro, they just had the shell engulf the Pokemon.
These are cheap cop outs, and come across as such.

There's zero point in attempting to debate this with you; you're clearly not remotely receptive to the idea of even considering their reasons for less new Pokemon and introducing Megas, and would much rather chalk it up to them being lazy and trying to spite the fanbase. Continue thinking that then.

 

[Lufenium]

Two things:

1. I never really understand as to how people come to the conclusion that Game Freak are running out of ideas based solely on the fact that we got 72 new Pokemon this gen.

2. Why do people labour under the impression that a mega evolution is something cheap and easy to implement? They could have easily given the typings/ability/movepool to a brand new Pokemon. Instead, they went back to older Mons, revisited the design, and decided to give some of the older Mons new light because it's easy to forget some after 700 or so creatures. There's nothing really cheap about it. In fact, finding balance for some of the OP megas like Mega Kanghaskhan must be tricky. It's all about balance, which is exactly what many Gen VI changes, including mega evolution, brought to the metagame.

Summary of this post:

 

[Rainami]

Mega Evolutions are a cheap easy filler way. They made 72 new Pokemon and rather than add 28 others, which would take time to think of a concept and design, they just went back to old designs, said how can we change them a little and package them as new.

Then they did the same in ORAS, I mean Mega Sableye come on, they just made its jewel bigger and changed its eyes. Mega Slowbro, they just had the shell engulf the Pokemon.
These are cheap cop outs, and come across as such.

> insulting mega sableye

u wot m8

I agree that the lack of Pokemon may be largely due to fanservice evolutions, but what's wrong with having some fanservice anyway? If your profile is at all accurate, I bet you wouldn't complain about a mega mew if that ever were to happen. Oh, on the subject of mew, I surely hope you don't argue when I say it has a simple design. With sableye and slowbro, it was best to keep these designs simple. Just as minor designs can be very effective and interesting, minor design changes can be very effective and interesting.

But yeah, making room for fanservice doesn't mean they're running out of ideas. If they were running out of ideas, don't you think they'd have saved some of unova's fuckzillion pokemon for xy? Hell, maybe they just felt they were introducing too many new pokemon at once (they were). Which would be....uncharacteristically rational of them.

 

[Lysson]

Two things:

1. I never really understand as to how people come to the conclusion that Game Freak are running out of ideas based solely on the fact that we got 72 new Pokemon this gen.

2. Why do people labour under the impression that a mega evolution is something cheap and easy to implement? They could have easily given the typings/ability/movepool to a brand new Pokemon. Instead, they went back to older Mons, revisited the design, and decided to give some of the older Mons new light because it's easy to forget some after 700 or so creatures. There's nothing really cheap about it. In fact, finding balance for some of the OP megas like Mega Kanghaskhan must be tricky. It's all about balance, which is exactly what many Gen VI changes, including mega evolution, brought to the metagame.

Summary of this post:
View attachment 97795

I have put 'running out of ideas' in quotations because it is not something I believe. I thought I stated that it is what a lot of the fandom have been claiming.

I have said nothing about Megas being cheap and easy to implement. I understand they are something that Gen VI has brought to the table, like Gen IV with the Physical/Special split, but many people don't regard them as new Pokemon compared to the rest of the Gen. 72 Pokemon is a good amount of Pokemon and I like all of them and think they're well designed, I think all Pokemon are well designed actually. With the previous Gen people complained about too many Pokemon so getting the balance right in the next Gen might be tricky which is why I think they may just add a new part to Gen VI.

I don't really understand your explanation of it being in two parts. You're saying that the next games (the second part?) will add a bunch of new Pokemon? But you also say that they are delaying Gen VII due to artist's block, so how are they suddenly designing loads of new Pokemon for this second part, if they have artist's block and want to delay Gen VII?

Artist's block could be seen as a reason for less Pokemon, sure, but then you see that Ken Sugimori isn't the only person who designs Pokemon, so I'm sure between the entire staff they could have made more Pokemon without struggling if they had wanted to. And there's no quote saying all the artists were suffering with artists block. It was specifically Sugimori and the two box mascots. I imagine Sugimori was struggling with the box mascots specifically because they need to have REALLY good designs (they are on the covers afterall) AND fit with their vision in terms of story/theme and in this particular instance he hit artist's block, which happens from time to time.

That is true but many people seem to believe that Gamefreak is running out of ideas (above quote, it is not something I believe) so I thought that to avoid people complaining they could just add more Pokemon to the current Gen before going on to another Gen and there are plenty of things left for them to go on just people seem to have a loathing for object Pokemon.

To clarify I see we're currently in Gen 6.5, in the next game I believe Zygarde will play an important role as there are loads of Pokemon that have suddenly appeared after the firing of the Ultimate Weapon and these are the rest of the Gen. Like I have said, I think Gamefreak will do it mostly as a selling tactic and not just because of the 'running out of ideas' crap the fandom hurls at them.

EDIT: Just realized the quotes I just used were not aimed at me but another user :/ sorry for any confusion caused xD I've realized some of my arguments are poor and have edited the first post

 

[Silktree]

-Not giving XY patches to deal with new megas, moves and abilities of ORAS. This means the next game will not be fully compatible with ORAS and XY and will probably add new megas, or better, new Pokemon.

Lack of updates to XY is as good a reason as any to move onto a new generation. You'd have a point if compatibility patches did exist.

-Expand Gen VI's lifespan. I don't think Gen VII will be on the 3DS but all of Gen VI will. Gen VI has a pitiful amount of spin-off games and none are particular noteworthy but if Gen VI lasts as long as it can then they can add more spin-offs and possibly more remakes/sequels to older games.

Spin-off games can be released at any time and it doesn't matter to which generation they correspond. After ORAS, revisiting another old region would definitely be more appropriate in a new generation so that the concept wouldn't grow stale.

-Do something new. Gamefreak are obsessed with deleting/taking out things and do go back on their word (Black and White 2) and they like to be innovative so why not do something different that could sell?

What you're suggesting wouldn't sell more than a new 3DS-based generation would. You should ask yourself why XY would blatantly foreshadow a new region (Strange Souvenir) if Game Freak really preferred to expand Kalos to compensate for their lack of ideas.

 

[Lysson]

-Do something new. Gamefreak are obsessed with deleting/taking out things and do go back on their word (Black and White 2) and they like to be innovative so why not do something different that could sell?

What you're suggesting wouldn't sell more than a new 3DS-based generation would. You should ask yourself why XY would blatantly foreshadow a new region (Strange Souvenir) if Game Freak really preferred to expand Kalos to compensate for their lack of ideas.

Didn't think of that at all as I completely forgot about the Strange Souvenir since the release of ORAS. I have also scrapped the 'lack of ideas' argument as I found it a bit poor but I wouldn't put them past splitting a Gen just to try out something new.
I just don't see them moving the main series games to the N3DS any time soon as they took a while to move the main series games from the DS to the 3DS. I can just see them splitting the Gen to make it more so that the next Kalos based game sells more as I don't see them moving quickly onto Gen VII so soon.

 

[Silktree]

I just don't see them moving the main series games to the N3DS any time soon as they took a while to move the main series games from the DS to the 3DS.

The 3DS was a proper successor to the DS, whereas the New 3DS is a smaller upgrade akin to the GBC or DSi. If Game Freak want to do anything with the New 3DS (probably enhanced games rather than exclusive ones), which was hinted by Masuda, it should definitely happen next year before the real successor is out. Masuda even said that ORAS weren't enhanced for the New 3DS due to being part of the same generation as XY, which implies that their plan for the New 3DS involves a new generation.

I don't see how they would even begin to promote a generation split. It would be too awkward.

I can just see them splitting the Gen to make it more so that the next Kalos based game sells more as I don't see them moving quickly onto Gen VII so soon.

Define "too soon". By late 2016 this generation will be as long as its predecessor was, and I don't see a problem with making it shorter (say, by half a year) due to the much smaller hardware jump.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I'd agree with this theory, but there's two problems:

1. The game data suggest that there's only two more games associated with 6th gen, and considering that Zygarde is missing two forms, I doubt it's two single release games.
2. The NX is going to be releasing soon, which is almost certainly 7th gen. We probably don't have time for 6th gen Part 2.

 

[Silktree]

2. The NX is going to be releasing soon,

It will only be announced next year, so it probably won't be released until early 2017 at the earliest.

which is almost certainly 7th gen. We probably don't have time for 6th gen Part 2.

There is also little reason to assume that Game Freak will release Generation VII upon the NX's launch when they've never done before for any system. They have more to gain from taking at least a year to become comfortable with the system and let its installed base grow (strong spin-off titles would help in that department). We already know that Masuda considers the New 3DS a different iteration in its own right.

 

[Bolt Strike]

There is also little reason to assume that Game Freak will release Generation VII upon the NX's launch when they've never done before for any system. They have more to gain from taking at least a year to become comfortable with the system and let its installed base grow (strong spin-off titles would help in that department). We already know that Masuda considers the New 3DS a different iteration in its own right.

Within a year would be fine, but if they do a 6th gen Part 2 they probably won't make it in time.

 

[Silktree]

Within a year would be fine, but if they do a 6th gen Part 2 they probably won't make it in time.

First of all, I maintain that it would be Generation VII. And it could work fairly well if both 3DS-based generations lasted 2.5 years. The release schedule could be as follows:

Early 2016: Generation VII versions (n3DS-enhanced)
2017: Follow-up versions, NX
Late 2018: Generation VIII versions

The 2017 versions could be n3DS-exclusive to give them more prowess, but also to encourage people with an old 3DS to buy the newly released NX, which should be backwards compatible. This would be analogous to what happened with Crystal close to the GBA's release.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

They revealed a freaking codename these we already knew that they were developing a new console. The Wii u may be doing not so great, but these things have longass development times. The Wii u having a 3-4 year cycle when it costs 300 bucks would be bad for consumer confidence. 4.5-5 five maybe the ps3 had took forever to roll too.

I think they just gave it a codename because they didn't want people to think they are leaving the console market. But it backfired by getting people to talk about the nx too early. Honestly would any one who wouldn't buy a Wii U buy a NX if it launched soon. No because they would think it's overpriced.

 

[Bolt Strike]

They revealed a freaking codename these we already knew that they were developing a new console. The Wii u may be doing not so great, but these things have longass development times. The Wii u having a 3-4 year cycle when it costs 300 bucks would be bad for consumer confidence. 4.5-5 five maybe the ps3 had took forever to roll too.

I think they just gave it a codename because they didn't want people to think they are leaving the console market. But it backfired by getting people to talk about the nx too early. Honestly would any one who wouldn't buy a Wii U buy a NX if it launched soon. No because they would think it's overpriced.

Except they're showing it off in 2016. If they're showing it off in 2016, that means it'll be releasing in 2017 at the latest. Like you said, it's stupid to get people talking about the NX too early, so if they're ready to show it off next year, then clearly they intend for it to release within the next 2 years.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

I didn't know that shown off console was confirmed. Honestly with the Mario HD take down and the affiliate program I wouldn't put it past then to not realize that backfire. Guess 2017 would be five years... wow that's depressing. I mean two years is a long time but damn.