Mafia Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ HEROES WIN ~ 12/5

[_Q2]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

So the most I'm seeing out of this is that Zima claims that he and GliscorMan are masons, which I don't buy one bit right now. The fact that there is definitely more than two mafia members (for game balance), it really rings an alarm in my head, since they could easily be mafia trying to get the town on their side.

If this is the case, we're looking at the following situation:

Day 2: 2 Cleared Mafia as Town; 17 people left
Night 2: Town lynched; town dies following night; 15 left (likely 4-11)
Day 3: 3 Mafia cleared as town
Night 3: Town lynched; town dies from mafia (13 left; likely 9-4)
...and so on.

Now, this is assuming that a town dies every phase. If this happens, this basically guarantees a mafia win, unless we catch onto it first.

The only way we can be completely sure about the claim being true is if the Cop investigates one of the two and comes up with a report.

In my own defense in the no lynch situation yesterday: I'm not the kind of lynch happy guy you'll find around unless there is substansial evidence against someone. It doesn't make sense to make a random lynch one day that gives us almost no edge over the mafia if we lynch a town (which was highly likely at the time), and still have the same small amount of information the next day. It doesn't make much sense to give the mafia such an edge over the town, especially with the situation at hand.

People seem to be looking a little too much into the fact that people agree with things; it doesn't make them suspicious if it's a regular argument around here, which it seems like it is.

 

[GliscorMan]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

@HumanDawn; As requested. However, I censored parts of it due to importance of the information, in that I do not wish for it to be revealed in public. If you want me to send it to you in private, I will certainly do so.

You know what? I think we should both claim mason when day 2 starts. <strategy censored> Also, it gives the cop someone to claim to, and helps the town narrow down the mafia.

Huh. It's risky. <strategy censored>

But either way, it helps the Town. The two of us being cleared prevents any sort of accidental information loss. <strategy censored>

All for it.

@CrackFox; I find it interesting that you think that it's a possibility that Human is orchestrating all of this, based on his confidence in our claim. Mind if you elaborate?

@_Q2; Your logic doesn't make sense to me. Under your scenario, how are there three cleared Mafia as Town by D3? Also, what makes you disbelieve our claim?

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

I would definitely appreciate some c/p convo from some kind of exchange between the two alleged masons. The rules state no screenshots so I don't wanna encourage any potential rulebreaks but if they are allowed to c/p some text from a skype chat or the QT, that would go a long way to confirming them and if that happens they will be a great tool for the cop/doctor and anyone else with an important role to confide in and work with.

@CrackFox; I find it interesting that you think that it's a possibility that Human is orchestrating all of this, based on his confidence in our claim. Mind if you elaborate?

I know how manipulative Human can be in games, mostly for the greater good but manipulative none the less. I could see him orchestrating something like this. Not saying I think it's likely but I wouldn't rule out the possibility. He also seems to be very sure of yours and Zima's claims, of course I want to believe it but since there is no evidence, i'm slightly reluctant, something which I would expect everyone of us to be really. The fact that he outright asked the cop not to check you guys made me suspicious because like i've said, I wouldn't recommend that, checking one of you would actually be a good idea if anything, because then we can be sure you are telling the truth and with two confirmed masons, the game would go a lot better for us.

 

[Heartilly]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

He also seems to be very sure of yours and Zima's claims

I'm pretty certain he's so sure because he thinks that they're Kotetsu and Barnaby, who are both partners. Considering the fact they're the first Hero Duo, and it's overall a big impact on the series, it would certainly make sense that they're masons.

Anyway, although I also think it would make sense, I'm not 100% sure about it, because it's best to not just assume. I'd personally feel better if the cop checked one of them, but you know, their call and all.

 

[harryheart]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

Interesting stuff has happened. I'm certainly on point for seconding a cop check on one of the 'masons' simply for our benefit and peace of mind. I currently stand at the point of being hesitant and cautious with this claim. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong though!

 

[_Q2]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

Gliscor, you don't seem to realize your own possibility of being mafia. The fact that Zima claimed to be a Mason with you so early is already bad enough, but the fact that his could just as easily be a mafia trick as it could be legit makes me a little more suspicious of you in that sense. I don't see the gain from claiming as a group so early unless you were already stacked against the mafia, in which the game would be around Day 4 if that were to happen.

I'm somewhat skeptical of your claim; more so than before, mainly because of the fact that you completely dismissed the possibility of you being mafia, and went right to how my logic is wed. Let me explain it a little more...

Let's assume you and Zima are mafia. Zima goes and claims to be a Mason with you. If we go to believe you, and you get more recruiting power (or not), you can simply say you recruited another teammate and get away with it. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

 

[Elysion]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

A cop check would be fine if you just want reassurance but two mafia members claiming to be masons would be incredibly risky for the mafia side, especially since mafia lack in numbers.

 

[Almonds]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

A cop check would be fine if you just want reassurance but two mafia members claiming to be masons would be incredibly risky for the mafia side, especially since mafia lack in numbers.

It's a well-used strategy for mafia partners to claim as masons. That way, the town members will claim to them easily since they're usually believed right away. I've spectated a game where mafia members got away with claiming as masons and eventually won because the cop never bothered to check them.

So just to be safe, we should have a cop check on either of them.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

I know how manipulative Human can be in games, mostly for the greater good but manipulative none the less. I could see him orchestrating something like this. Not saying I think it's likely but I wouldn't rule out the possibility. He also seems to be very sure of yours and Zima's claims, of course I want to believe it but since there is no evidence, i'm slightly reluctant, something which I would expect everyone of us to be really.

You can ask @Momoka; that before the thread for this game was even created I told her there would very likely be masons, so if two people are claiming then it's only logical for me to find it to be very likely to be true too. I'd have to be a mad man to make two Mafia partners fakeclaim something knowing that it is highly likely to be in the game, especially so early, and risk getting them counterclaimed. I also haven't claimed to either of them by the way, at least not yet anyway.

The fact that he outright asked the cop not to check you guys made me suspicious because like i've said, I wouldn't recommend that, checking one of you would actually be a good idea if anything, because then we can be sure you are telling the truth and with two confirmed masons, the game would go a lot better for us.

I can already predict a post saying that the cop checked the godfather from the two, and that it was all possibly a plan to get a Mafia confirmed as Town, and so we'll all possibly still be tricked, and that we'll also be still possibly in high risk of losing, possibly causing many mislynches for trusting them because they're possibly Mafia all along, all because we don't have "substantial evidence". What would a cop check change really? If they were fakeclaiming masons one of them would have to be the Godfather. I think you've pointed out this kind of thing can happen like three or four times in other games already and how it would not "confirm" anything because of the endless amount of possibilities, so how you've suddenly said it would definitely confirm them comes off as strange to me.

If you never screw the infinite amount of possibilities how do you expect to win and achieve? I get the impression people want to "play logically", but most of the time it comes across to me as if they want to play it safe for literally everything and point out all the damn possibilities to keep on playing safe, which is the most boring you can get in a Mafia game. The most excitement I ever see somebody have in a Mafia game is when they don't play safe but play logically. When people end up playing too cautiously the game turns out to be a bore.

So the most I'm seeing out of this is that Zima claims that he and GliscorMan are masons, which I don't buy one bit right now. The fact that there is definitely more than two mafia members (for game balance), it really rings an alarm in my head, since they could easily be mafia trying to get the town on their side.

How would it make you very doubtful of it being true just because it's possible?(even though it's low)

The only way we can be completely sure about the claim being true is if the Cop investigates one of the two and comes up with a report.

I'm sure me and others won't be be completely sure, but I'd trust them a lot more.

In my own defense in the no lynch situation yesterday: I'm not the kind of lynch happy guy you'll find around unless there is substansial evidence against someone. It doesn't make sense to make a random lynch one day that gives us almost no edge over the mafia if we lynch a town (which was highly likely at the time), and still have the same small amount of information the next day. It doesn't make much sense to give the mafia such an edge over the town, especially with the situation at hand.

Even if a mislynch could be made, it could still help lead the game into a better direction, and make people be more active by acting more. It's better than always No Lynching and just waiting for a potential cop report and doing nothing.

Gliscor, you don't seem to realize your own possibility of being mafia. The fact that Zima claimed to be a Mason with you so early is already bad enough, but the fact that his could just as easily be a mafia trick as it could be legit makes me a little more suspicious of you in that sense. I don't see the gain from claiming as a group so early unless you were already stacked against the mafia, in which the game would be around Day 4 if that were to happen.

I'm somewhat skeptical of your claim; more so than before, mainly because of the fact that you completely dismissed the possibility of you being mafia, and went right to how my logic is wed. Let me explain it a little more...

Let's assume you and Zima are mafia. Zima goes and claims to be a Mason with you. If we go to believe you, and you get more recruiting power (or not), you can simply say you recruited another teammate and get away with it. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

Ehh? Where'd he completely dismiss it?

It's a well-used strategy for mafia partners to claim as masons. That way, the town members will claim to them easily since they're usually believed right away. I've spectated a game where mafia members got away with claiming as masons and eventually won because the cop never bothered to check them.

So just to be safe, we should have a cop check on either of them.

i literally am trying to keep my head from exploding

While it's a strategy, it's hardly one I'd say that is easy for it to be well used and commonly used for it to work successfully. It could be a different case in that game with how it was handled. I'm not saying we should trust them and claim to them, but we have little to no reason to doubt them right now. Since we're all throwing possibilities, I wouldn't be surprised if a Mafia member was expressing doubt on their claim just so the Town doesn't trust them at all.

 

[GliscorMan]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

@_Q2; We do not have any recruiting powers. More to come later. Gotta dash.

 

[Feenie]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

About Human's statement there, it is true. He did discuss that with me and I do believe that it is highly possible. Although, I can also see CrackFox's side. I was thinking the same thing before, on how they could both be mafia claiming to be masons. The only reason I think that is because they were so quick to claim outright like that... both of them. That's the only thing keeping me from trusting them, quite honestly.

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

@HumanDawn;

Fair enough, since it seems you were convinced about masons existing, I suppose that explains why you're so quick to believe the claim. However, I still think cop checking one of them is a good idea. One of them doesn't have to be the godfather to risk a claim like this, they probably didn't expect to be so heavily question about it, let alone possibly checked. I am inclined to believe they are telling the truth, if we got an innocent cop check on one of them, I wouldn't press the issue of possible godfather since the chances of them lying already seems small to me, the chances of them lying but escaping a guilty check seems a bit too unlikely to concern ourselves with at this point in the game.

If nothing else, it would give us peace of mind and there's no better target to check right now.

I know it seems like we're playing it safe but two mafia members claiming mason is a smart thing to do if they can get away with it. All the big roles will flock to them to confide so it's best to be as sure as we can be. I think checking one of them is a good idea personally, but i'm sure the cop will make up his/her own mind about it regardless of what we think.


Anyway, as of right now we aren't thinking about the matter of who to vote for today. Another no-lynch is not a great idea.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

Cross Examination ~ Moderato 2013 - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies Music Extended - YouTube

I've been looking through the thread to decide who I'll be voting this phase and I think I've found a player that is worth lynching.

I only mentioned just in case people find it suspicious if I'm not acting as usual. If you go look at previous games, you'll see that in nearly every game I was joke-voting the host (or voting early as possible to generate conversations). Changing my playstyle; not doing that in this game because I figured there was no need for unnecessary actions from me. In fact, I'll be more careful with placing votes in voting phases.

This post confuses me reading it again. You claim that you've decided to change your playstyle because there's "no need for unnecessary actions", and yet in the sentence before you, you state that you joke-voted the host to "generate conversations", which you've said multiple times in previous games were helpful because it made the game active and people talk. Why would you decide to change your playstyle to one that goes directly against what you believed was helpful?(and imo, successful)

We're allowed to post in night
... are we?

*cricket sounds*

This would have made more sense to ask after the phase update, not after I posted first in the Night Phase.

Hopefully, the cop got some information, but whichever results the cop may have gotten, it's probably not reliable this early in the game since we don't know what roles per alignment there are.

"Hopefully the cop has some helpful information..." "... but whatever it is it doesn't really matter now."

? ? ???? ? ? ?? ?

You immediately say you hope the cop has information only for you to say it's not reliable, so why would you hope for it in the first place? It's as if you don't want the cop to share any information at all even if they have it despite the fact it's worth sharing regardless and definitely helpful for the Mafia for the Town not to have it.

It's a well-used strategy for mafia partners to claim as masons. That way, the town members will claim to them easily since they're usually believed right away. I've spectated a game where mafia members got away with claiming as masons and eventually won because the cop never bothered to check them.

So just to be safe, we should have a cop check on either of them.

I still don't like the vibes this post has been giving me, it puts too much more doubt on the mason claim from nothing just because there's a chance it could be faked and be dangerous if it really was. _Q2's posts comes off across to me as if he's more confused like I was with my reasoning on IUH despite sharing similarities. DK makes her post out to be as if we shouldn't trust the mason claim at all solely because it could be faked, and then goes to say that just to be safe, the cop should check either of them, despite saying earlier that the information the cop gets is "probably not reliable" because "we don't know what roles per alignment are.".

I also know that when DK made her joke votes to hosts, it gave her a lot of attention, attention that I'm sure that if she were Mafia wouldn't want at all. I think I have good enough reason to believe that she claimed to have changed her playstyle despite saying it would help generate something helpful just to not get any attention that would risk her in getting cop checked and thus lynched. She has also said contradictory things that are suspicious, hasn't been giving me any Town vibes either, and her overall behaviour has been suspicious.

VOTE: Dark Kyriaki

 

[Elysion]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

Honestly I think Human's argument makes sense, although I only found her majesty's post about changing her play style to be strange. But what Human is saying makes sense, and although I kind of just overlooked Dark Kyriaki's last post at first, it does come across as quite suspicious(at least the wording of it). So:

Vote: Dark Kyriaki

 

[FinalArcadia]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

I'd actually been wondering if Kyriaki had a really big power role again and was trying to be more cautious seeing how things didn't work out in other games, but Human's point about the cop and how first she acts like info would be good but then that we couldn't trust it (and I'm not sure how knowing what roles per alignment was relevant, like that seems to be the usual) is very suspicious, as if to cast doubt on any leads we may be able to get from a copcheck. Then added onto the doubt of the masons, it would be effective at trying to lead town away from good sources of info if the cop talked through them.

VOTE: Dark Kyriaki

 

[Majestic-Six]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

Yeah that last post was abit suspicious

VOTE: Dark Kyriaki

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

Well i'm not proud to jump on the bandwagon but I think it's necessary that we get a kill today. Reading through Human's post and reading back DK's post I get what Human is saying. The bit about changing playstyles is definitely interesting and it would fit right in with playing under a different allience. I will say that the last game I played DK got himself lynched for acting suspicious and it turned out he was the cop xD

We'll see. Another person that is standing out is Masta Apex, he's posted only a few times, with basic comments about one sentence long. Anyway,

Vote: Dark Kyriaki

 

[Almonds]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

I just got up and checked in bmgf to see how things were going and it seems I was chosen based on my posts. I was going to change my playstyle, but it seems that itself was not favorable.

I don't want to die early again, but I have no time to read through the thread and counter each and every post since I have to leave really soon (and I probably won't be back by the update). I'm the Bodyguard though, so it's up to you to judge.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

Spoiler

1. @Momoka;
2. @HumanDawn;
3. @FinalArcadia;
4. @Dark Kyriaki;
5. @CrackFox;
6. @Buoy;
7. @ghaskan;
8. @GliscorMan;
10. @harryheart;
11. @RageRunnerXD;
12. @Elysion;
13. @Ziмa;
14. @Wright;
15. @Masta apex;
16. @Insert Name Here;
17. @_Q2;

"Finally I caught you, Jake!" Barnaby yelled out, landing on the ground after jumping through the buildings of Sternbild. "You will pay for what you did to my parents!"

"You think you caught me? I knew you were coming for me. Could hear your thoughts loud and clear." Jake laughed as he saw that Barnaby had fallen for his trap.

However if Jake had been paying attention then he would have noticed Kotetsu attack him. Kotetsu tackled him to the ground, pushed off by Jake's ability as the Ouroboros member prepared to run. He was caught in the hero's trap though. The heroes surrounded him together, leaving him with no escape.

"You may have thought you had the advantage due to your ability to read minds, however we thought about that beforehand," Barnaby started to explain.

"We just thought things that we knew you would brush off," Kotetsu finished.

Jake panicked upon figuring out that his capture was imminent now that the heroes knew how to counter his ability. Using his second ability he tried to hit the heroes, only to cause the building he was on to collapse. He tumbled down with the rubble, becoming buried in it and thus losing his life.

Spoiler

Dear Dark Kyriaki:


You are Jake Martinez.

Spoiler

You are one of the most high-profile members of the crime organization Ouroboros, having been captured by Sternbild's first-ever hero, Mr. Legend. You are a sadistic and cruel man who hurts and humiliates other people for your own amusement. You believe that NEXT are superior to normal humans, and you intend to create a “paradise” for NEXT where non-NEXT people are enslaved or killed.

You are currently the only NEXT known to have two powers, one of which is the ability to read minds. Once per night phase, you may post in the qucktopic the message “Check: Username”. You will receive a PM telling you of that person's ability.

You are allied with OUROBOROS. Outnumber the HEROES to win.

Spoiler

Dark Kyriaki was lynched. She was allied with the OUROBOROS

"Hey Bunny. How are you feeling?" Kotetsu asked his partner.

"I didn't get to deal the revenge by my own hands, but still I feel much better knowing that one of my parents killers has been dealt justice," Barnaby replied with a small smile.

Meanwhile from farther away a woman swore her vengeance on the heroes. Vengeance driven by love, and now hate for those that had taken Jake away from her.

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Tiger & Bunny Mafia ~ Day 2: But Will My Death Get Ratings ~ 11/11

Well we really got lucky. Well done Human for noticing the discrepancies in her posts, I probably wouldn't have this early on.