what don't you like about hg/ss?

[hanecco]

The biggest drawback, to me, is that it uses DPPt's engine, which leads to extremely slow animations, extremely slow movement speed, and the rather ugly colour palette of those games getting reused (the grass is practically neon in many places...) It makes the game feel considerably less smooth than it could have been otherwise.

I also agree with the lack of Johto Pokémon within Johto itself, which was kind of disappointing.

 

[Bolt Strike]

• While the Safari Zone was a big help in getting some Johto Pokemon available in Johto, there's still a few that were reserved for post game. ALL of the Johto Pokemon should be accessible before beating the Elite 4 (the opposite mascot can remain an exception, but everything else should be catchable)
• Johto Pokemon are way too underutilized in gym rosters when there several Johto Pokemon that would fit them pretty well. Why does Falkner not have a Hoothoot? Why does Bugsy not have a Ledyba and/or Spinarak? Why does Morty not have a Misdreavus? The rematch rosters feel closer to what the gym rosters should've been like in the first place (minus them having Lv. 60 Pokemon that are fully evolved).
• The game is way too conservative when it comes to the regional dex. After Platinum made the groundbreaking decision to expand the Sinnoh Dex with 60 additional Pokemon, HGSS follows that up with... just adding 5 cross gen evos that only evolve by learning a specific move. There's 493 Pokemon with a much wider variety of types, we shouldn't still be having regional dexes with 1 or 2 families of rarer types like Ghost and Dragon, throw in some newer families like Drifloon or Altaria to the Johto Dex for Arceus' sake (also ties into the gym leader roster problem because it forces the likes of Morty, Clair, and Lance to spam the likes of the Gastly and Dratini lines until post game).
• They managed to add back a lot of missing content to Kanto, but there's still a few things missing or feel like they could be added. Why is Mt. Moon's design still nerfed? Why can't we explore the House of Memories or the Cinnabar Island volcano? Why is the Rt. 7-8 Underground Path closed?

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

• Why does Falkner not have a Hoothoot? Why does Bugsy not have a Ledyba and/or Spinarak?

Thankfully, the anime remedied that.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Thankfully, the anime remedied that.

The anime is a whole different animal and I don't really watch it anymore, so that's not really compensation. I mainly enjoy the games and I want to see the games prominently feature Johto Pokemon in the gym battles.

 

[Norzan]

Thankfully, the anime remedied that.

The game still has Falkner with Pidgeotto as his ace instead of an Hoothoot, so not really.

 

[c la fet]

I wish you could ask Daisy to massage your Pokémon any time, that would make the quest to get Blue's number less long.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

The game still has Falkner with Pidgeotto as his ace instead of an Hoothoot, so not really.

I mean, no offense to Hoothoot, since I love it, but that would be a pretty lame ace.

 

[Norzan]

I mean, no offense to Hoothoot, since I love it, but that would be a pretty lame ace.

The entire point of a new generation is to promote the new pokemon and not old pokemon, specially if you are not gonna do anything new with the latter. Doesn't matter if it's "lame".

That raises the question, why not just make it a Noctowl if you are just gonna have an illegal pokemon? Because Falkner's Pidgeotto is illegal because Pidgey evolves into it at 16 and Falkner's is level 9 in the original and 13 in HGSS.

And this is not even the worst part, he doesn't have a single Johto pokemon. He could have had an Hoothoot instead of Pidgey.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

The entire point of a new generation is to promote the new pokemon and not old pokemon, specially if you are not gonna do anything new with the latter. Doesn't matter if it's "lame".

And that raises the question, why not just make it a Noctowl if you are just gonna have an illegal pokemon? Because Falkner's Pidgeotto is illegal because Pidgey evolves into at 16 and Falkner's is level 9 in the original and 13 in HGSS.

True true, they should've just done that. Hell, you can find illegal Noctowl for yourself anyway in-game in the Viridian Forest at night, so Falkner should've just gone there.

 

[Bluemew1512]

That Level Curve - no game, I do not want to be battling Pokemon around the 10-20 level range in the middle of the postgame. Plus, the distribution of Johto Pokemon is quite poor.

 

[Zexy]

Aside from some general Johto problems like level curve and phone call spam, the HGSS-only thing that annoyed me was putting Rock Climb so late and the Shiny Stone in National Park behind it. You are given a Togepi egg and cannot evolve it fully until just before Red

 

[Bolt Strike]

As great as HGSS is, it suffers the same problem that every remake follows: an insistence on mainly sticking to the original Johto Dex. Pretty much EVERY older regional dex (up until like, BW2 Unova Dex) has had some kind of variety issue. In Johto's case, the major issue here is with Ghost and Dragon, which only have 2 families each (Gastly line and Misdreavus for Ghost and Dratini line and Kingdra for Dragon). Really limits the team building for Morty, Clair and Lance that use them (the rematch rosters are closer to what they should've been in the first place) and prevents players from monotyping those types should they so wish.

I also would've liked to see a little more redesigned maps to take advantage of the Gen 4 engine. Especially more mountainous areas to take advantage of the Gen 4 engine. We had some good ones like Rt. 47 and Mt. Silver, but I would've liked to see a few more. Prime areas for this would include:

-Blackthorn City, Rt. 45, and Rt. 46
-Rt. 3, Rt. 4, and Mt. Moon
-Rt. 9, Rt. 10, and Rock Tunnel
-Cinnibar Island, with the volcano now a new, fully explorable dungeon.
-Also lengthen some of the really short routes like Rt. 7, 16, and 18.

 

[Daenerys]

I generally love HG/SS - they're like my favorite DS games - but the games have some flaws imho:

1. The Safari Zone is the big one. I hate how many rare Pokemon that could show up there required you to place specific objects in certain areas and would take up to ~70 days to make the rare Pokemon appear. Like seriously? Why did GF think players would wait literally 2 months and a half just to make a Riolu appear? Especially since there's no guarantee that you could catch one anyway because most Safari Zone Pokemon flee quickly. You were better off just trading for one...

2. The GB Sounds. I thought it was a great idea to include a way to listen to the GSC soundtrack in HG/SS... except that the tracks on the GB Sounds are just recreated versions of the original GSC BGM and not the original GSC tracks themselves. It's subtle but as I was a huge fan of the original GSC score, I can hear the differences between the recreated tracks and the originals.

3. The Pokewalker. I thought it was a fun concept at first, but it's too reliant on luck and having to walk a lot just to gain enough watts was super annoying. And even if you had enough watts many of the rare Pokemon that appeared on the Pokewalker were hard to encounter. Also the battery on the device ran out after about a year of conservative use, probably much faster if you used it often. What a rip-off.

4. Small things like Eusine disappearing after the Suicune subplot ends ticks me off. IIRC he would appear in Celadon City's PC in Crystal and it bugged me that that didn't happen in HG/SS. Also I hate how the Seafoam Islands play the Ice Path music. Why not play one of the Kanto cave tracks instead since the Seafoam Islands are actually in Kanto?

---

Oh and let me just say that I don't see eye-to-eye with the whole "the leveling curve sucked so these games are bad" rhetoric. Yes, I acknowledge that the leveling curve wasn't great, I won't deny that. I'm just always flabbergasted when that issue gets singled out as if it were the worst thing about these games. Especially when you consider that it's only a problem during the main storyline, which takes what, a week or two to complete? Once you've finished the main storyline and have the ability to re-battle Gym Leaders and the Elite 4 leveling up becomes a lot easier and the leveling curve no longer matters. So the fact that people focus on a flaw that is only irritating for a couple weeks is something that has always seemed strange to me.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

the problem isn't that types like ghost and dragon are rare. These types, along with Ice, are supposed to be rare late-game types. That was by design. The problem is that there are trainers specializing in these types, that have to spam the same line over and over. Also, part of the problem is that they didn't give Morty a Misdreavus.

 

[Bolt Strike]

the problem isn't that types like ghost and dragon are rare. These types, along with Ice, are supposed to be rare late-game types. That was by design.

Dragon yes, Ghost no. Gastly is available before the 4th gym in RBY and even before the FIRST gym in GSC. And Misdreavus isn't even that good to warrant being unavailable until the VERY LAST AREA IN THE GAME.

Anyway, even for Dragon they started rectifying that as early as RS by adding more non-pseudo Dragons like Altaria and Flygon. Those would've been great additions to the Johto Dex if they would've bothered to add some 3rd gen families instead of limiting themselves to the original 251 + cross gen evos.

Also, part of the problem is that they didn't give Morty a Misdreavus.

Bandaid on a bullet hole. That's 2 families on a gym roster that has 4 slots, even with Misdreavus there weren't enough Ghost families in existence at the time to fill out that roster, but there were at the time of HGSS, they just chose not to add 3rd or 4th gen Ghost types. Something like Sableye, Shuppet, Duskull, Drifloon, anything but nope, the game wants to pretend 3rd and 4th gen Pokemon don't exist.

 

[Zexy]

It would ruin the "remake" experience. I was more annoyed that you could totally have a Golbat with enough friendship before National Dex in FRLG but could not evolve it. Same here with Togekiss. They tried too hard to stay true to this up until ORAS when they said "screw it" and let everything be fair game after fighting the Primal. Even giving Glacia a Froslass.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

Some of the new sprites looked pretty weird like Jolteon's. Also I wish Gamefreak had made the two trainers in Jasmine's gym battleable so that they'd actually serve a purpose. Some of the Johto gym leader rosters needed an update too.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

Dragon yes, Ghost no. Gastly is available before the 4th gym in RBY and even before the FIRST gym in GSC. And Misdreavus isn't even that good to warrant being unavailable until the VERY LAST AREA IN THE GAME.

Anyway, even for Dragon they started rectifying that as early as RS by adding more non-pseudo Dragons like Altaria and Flygon. Those would've been great additions to the Johto Dex if they would've bothered to add some 3rd gen families instead of limiting themselves to the original 251 + cross gen evos.

If they'd add in too many Hoenn/Sinnoh pokemon, it wouldn't feel like Johto anymore. There's only so much you can do in a remake. These games were meant to be the best version of Johto, but they're still meant to be Johto.

ok, maybe ghost wasn't a late-game type, but it was still designed to be a rare type that only a few mons have. I won't try to justify Misdreavus being unavailable until Mt. Silver though; that's just bad design.

Bandaid on a bullet hole. That's 2 families on a gym roster that has 4 slots, even with Misdreavus there weren't enough Ghost families in existence at the time to fill out that roster, but there were at the time of HGSS, they just chose not to add 3rd or 4th gen Ghost types. Something like Sableye, Shuppet, Duskull, Drifloon, anything but nope, the game wants to pretend 3rd and 4th gen Pokemon don't exist.

To me, all of those would feel out of place in Johto. Might just be my nostalgia for the region though; i can't really explain my feelings any other way.

Some of the new sprites looked pretty weird like Jolteon's. Also I wish Gamefreak had made the two trainers in Jasmine's gym battleable so that they'd actually serve a purpose. Some of the Johto gym leader rosters needed an update too.

The trainers served so that it looked like Jasmine was running an actual gym rather than standing alone in a room like in GSC

 

[Bolt Strike]

It would ruin the "remake" experience.

Would it? They started adding Pokemon to the regional dexes with Platinum. Why does that "ruin" remakes more than it would third versions? Adding those Pokemon to Platinum was one of the best things they've ever done to improve a previous version and it's a shame that remakes have never experienced a similar bump.

I was more annoyed that you could totally have a Golbat with enough friendship before National Dex in FRLG but could not evolve it. Same here with Togekiss. They tried too hard to stay true to this up until ORAS when they said "screw it" and let everything be fair game after fighting the Primal. Even giving Glacia a Froslass.

Froslass was a cross gen addition to the Hoenn Dex though, not a National Dex addition. The Elite 4 rosters are still the same aside from cross gen additions (as you mentioned, Glacia gets two Froslass, but also Phoebe evolves one of her Dusclops into Dusknoir to be her main), the National Dex changes don't go into effect until the rematches. It's just the regular trainers in Victory Road that have National Dex Pokemon. And really they did the same thing with HGSS in Kanto, you got the National Dex in Kanto but the 3rd and 4th gen Pokemon weren't prevalent there either, they weren't catchable through normal means and none of the Kanto gym leaders used them on their first battle, just the regular gym trainers.

Really though, if this is such an issue that they can't add ANY new Pokemon other than cross gens, I think it's time to question whether or not remakes are really needed anymore, because this is a pretty significant issue that holds the game back IMO. The Pokemon are the stars of the show so if you don't have good Pokemon variety to provide sufficient options for various situations, rosters, and choices, it's not going to be enjoyable. We have online services such as VC and NSO now for people that want to experience the original games as they were on the original hardware, so we don't need a $60 game to serve that purpose anymore. If they want to update an older region for newer hardware and younger generations and they feel like remakes are holding them back, they should look to doing more sequels/prequels/spiritual successors like BW2 and Legends Arceus (and this is probably the reason LA even exists, I think even Game Freak feels held back by the remakes). LA feels far more like what Sinnoh should feel with on the Switch than BDSP, or even what a HGSS/ORAS style remake of DP would've felt like. And Arceus knows, older regions like Kanto and Johto need the LA treatment even more than Sinnoh, they're totally outdated in just about every way. I still think even remakes should be able to get away with a bit more than HGSS and ORAS did, but I'd be okay with more LA style reimaginings as an alternative. Just something that does more than "update the graphics and throw in a few extra features and lore tidbits", the actual design of the games is heavily flawed, even by the time HGSS came out (but they feel even worse now).

If they'd add in too many Hoenn/Sinnoh pokemon, it wouldn't feel like Johto anymore. There's only so much you can do in a remake. These games were meant to be the best version of Johto, but they're still meant to be Johto.

I don't see a problem with adding ~50 Hoenn or Sinnoh Pokemon to the main game. That would be enough to fix the variety issues without overwhelming the game and making Johto Pokemon too outnumbered in their own region (of course that should also be accompanied distribution tweaks to make Johto Pokemon more common in their native region).

To me, all of those would feel out of place in Johto. Might just be my nostalgia for the region though; i can't really explain my feelings any other way.

There's probably better choices now, but at the time they would've been okay. And actually I still feel like Altaria would be an excellent fit for Johto, it would really fit some of Johto's mountainous environments like Rt. 42 and Rt. 45. But there's a lot of newer Ghosts and Dragons in the generations since HGSS that I think would better fit Johto's environments and culture now. If I was designing GSC now in the year 2023, I'd probably give it stuff like Dusknoir, Chandelure, Golurk, Sensu Oricorio, Altaria, Haxorus, Druddigon, and Kommo-o. Those are good choices for Johto's traditional Japanese environment and some of its locations (Duskull and Litwick lines could go in the towers, Sensu Oricorio could go just about anywhere, Swablu line I mentioned, Axew line, Druddigon, and Jangmo-o line could go in various caves and/or mountains and especially Dragon's Den).

EDIT: Also Poltchageist line. Forgot about that because it was just introduced in Teal Mask.

The trainers served so that it looked like Jasmine was running an actual gym rather than standing alone in a room like in GSC

Why can't it function like an actual gym instead of just looking like it though?

 

[Zexy]

I do not think adding all the Hoenn/Sinnoh mons for the types that lacked enough species would make sense, but maybe Spheal/Snorunt, Duskull/Shuppet and Swablu lines could work, since they look generic. I do not think Sableye and especially the desert incarnate Trapinch fit Johto at all. Similarly Drifloon was too much of a Windworks thing at the time, and Snover needs open snow where grass grows, not an ice path cave.

As for Jasmine, I liked the original idea that she is a new Olivine Leader (after Norman left) with a brand new discovered type etc. What did not make sense was her being a Rock type specialist before, OK she would have Onix... What about the Magnemite line? Scizor?