Where Do We Rank?

[Legacy]

I say it a lot, but the number of talented writers here at BMGf, and the Writers' Workshop is truly awesome. The number of quality fics here has seriously at least tripled since I first joined. The quality of this place as a whole has gone waay way up.

What do you guys think about our group of authors here? Do you agree with my assessment that we have seen amazing growth both in numbers and the collective improvements some of our newer authors have exhibited? What do you think of us?

And I'm also just wondering how we stack up against some of the other fan sites/communities? I am not an active member anywhere but here, so just curious for those who are frequent visitors to the other Pokemon fan hang outs out there, how do we measure up as a group?

 

[AceTrainer14]

I think we have quite a few authors that excell a lot about the rest, and others who aren't that great. I would say that about half of the authors here would rank above a lot, and some could even rank as the best Pokemon authors online. But I don't think that every writer on here is brilliant.

 

[Legacy]

I was more talking about us a group. How do the Bulbagarden authors measure up against some of the other sites with fanfiction sections?

 

[alster08]

To measure against other sites I would have to say that there are more sites that I have seen just as much tallent there. Some even better. To me its because that there rules state specific amounts, you must have good grammer and stuff like that. All in all we are like equal to others.

 

[Aladar]

Yeah, if you want ab average estimate, Serebii's got us beat because they've rules for good grammar, minimum lenght of a fic etc. They just weed out the bad authors. Although we are working on implementing a similar system here.

 

[Shiay]

... Working out a similar system that ultimately says, 'If you suck, you can't post'? That's not very fair. I'd honestly suggest another forum for the workshop that's for fics from writers that specifically want critiques, because there are quite a few writers here that post in the main board that want crits but never get them. >____>

 

[Aladar]

... Working out a similar system that ultimately says, 'If you suck, you can't post'? That's not very fair. I'd honestly suggest another forum for the workshop that's for fics from writers that specifically want critiques, because there are quite a few writers here that post in the main board that want crits but never get them. >____>

So we should leave all the, s'cuse me if someone's offended, trashy fics stay? Like, all the ones that don't even have 2-3 pages on Word even, have grammar like a drunk polar bear smashing a broken keyboard and absolutely no sense of originality, plot, characterisation, describing different stuff and all that?

IMO this Workshop will be better without them. Plus, there's a better chance of not sinking into desperation because every new fic you click on is basically the same nonsense. There are a lot of good new fics, yes, but if we weigh the scales...

 

[Shiay]

Well, to be honest, some of those fics generally classify as troll fics. Generally. If someone wants to improve on their work, then they should get the option to do so. We are not Serebii, and I'm quite sure that we don't want to sink to the levels of elitism that get shown on that site. If I may, I say that there should be some people in the workshop that are specifically there for critiques. People that can offer a bout of good advice for a beginning writer. After all, we're not all gems when we start off, why should we discriminate against those who need or want the help and advice?

In my honest opinion, this would be like me telling everyone in the artist's alcove, "if your sprite/banners/art in general looks as if a five-year old made it, you can't post it". Our members come from being as low as ten years of age and get as high to their late forties and even higher, in some cases. We are not elitists, we, the staff, are conformists. And sinking down to say that only good fics get in is borderline elitism.

 

[Kayi Rowling]

Well, to be honest, some of those fics generally classify as troll fics.

What we want is to get rid of these fics. If the person, upon being found and told their story is, well, not so good decides to change, then it's not a trollfic and I guess it can stay. They can get better

 

[Shiay]

That's what I'm trying to get at.

If someone wants to improve on their work, then they should get the option to do so.

If it's a troll fic, then lock it. Don't just say that anything that looks like crap can't be submitted. >___>

 

[Dorothy]

I say a badfic gets four-five chapters to improve. After that, it gets locked.

 

[Kayi Rowling]

If it's a troll fic, then lock it. Don't just say that anything that looks like crap can't be submitted. >___>

It's more of a "watch your spelling and grammar" thing. If it's in the rules, then they know they have to improve somehow before something like what Jabberwocky just ninja'd me with happens.

 

[Zekurom]

We are not Serebii, and I'm quite sure that we don't want to sink to the levels of elitism that get shown on that site.

Does PokéCommunity's Fan Fiction board also come to mind?

I haven't posted anything but the first two chapters of my fic there.

 

[Shiay]

I've actually never looked at the PC fanfiction boards. I've only ever frequented their art forums. I'm more art oriented than writing oriented unless you're counting roleplays. Then I'm very writing oriented.

 

[Aladar]

Shiay, you can't possibly think that those illiterate pieces of "fanfiction" written in the quick reply box will be actually improved on by their "authors" who give up after the first few negative comments?

 

[Shiay]

*facepalm*

I'm just going to quote this for good measure.

If someone wants to improve on their work, then they should get the option to do so. We are not Serebii, and I'm quite sure that we don't want to sink to the levels of elitism that get shown on that site. If I may, I say that there should be some people in the workshop that are specifically there for critiques. People that can offer a bout of good advice for a beginning writer. After all, we're not all gems when we start off, why should we discriminate against those who need or want the help and advice?

... I am not saying that you shouldn't be free and easy about everything, I'm trying to get across that not everyone deserves to be written off after one post of what we would truly classify as 'crap'. You weren't a good as writer as you are now than the first time you started writing, I know it. I wasn't as good an artist as I was at ten, eight years later, I've gotten people who are fans of my art.

And yes... I am lumping drawing and writing together, as they are both different types of media. Written and visual. We artists get critiques and ridiculed just as much as writers do. Still yet, there are 'troll artists' just like there are 'troll writers'; likewise, there are going to be 'rookie artists' and 'rookie writers'. We're all going to have people that like what we do when we're seasoned enough, and we're still going to have people that think we could do better.

My opinions and thoughts come from someone who has offered and received many critiques on both my writing and my art. Granted, I am not as active in the Writer's Workshop as I once was, I will still voice my opinions here as a fellow writer. Like I have said before, there are kids on here that are still in their last years of elementary school and beginning years of middle school. Are we going to just 'rip their essay' in their face and go, "nope, sorry. We're not going to allow this on here because your writing doesn't meet our high school plus standards."?

To be honest, BMGf has been one of the most child-friendly Pokémon forums that I've come across and and honoured to be a part of and even more honoured to have been chosen as staff for. I'm not sure that I would like to see that change -- after all, MOST of the Pokémon fandom are kids. WE (well, most of us...) were kids when Pokémon first came out and we have grown up with it and improved on our own.

The idea of a workshop is that it's supposed to be a place for people to work on their... well, work. You can call the 'stuff entered in the quick reply box' illiterate all you want, but sometimes that's really all kids know. The idea is not to discourage kids from something that they could someday be really great at, the idea is to help them if they want it. Which is why suggested the other forum.

Jabberwocky's idea is something that could work really well, too. I mean, if we give them the chance and just see if and how they improve, then sure. If you're really wanting to implement something like this, I know I can't stop you guys, though, again, as someone who is also writer, I will say that I won't be happy about it. Why not just fragment the subforums where there are 'Unpolished Works', 'Finished Works' and 'Critique Board'. I really think that it'd be a lot more simple that way than just going through with a system like that.

Then you won't have people complaining about the crappier stuff because it'll be in a different forum. And... as a very good friend of mine (who actually proofreads A LOT of my work) just said to me, "The staff can say whether it belongs in the Finished/Unfinished catergory, and the people looking for hardcore crit have a place to post too. EVERYone wins. And then bmgf doesn't come off as elitist craptards."

 

[Aladar]

Child-friendly? Figures with be the kiddie table... how I hate it so...

Anyway, back on topic, a different forum could be possible...

But still, if someone had ripped apart my very first writing way back then (years ago), that would've been a good favor. A great one. I only keep that idocy I wrote to remind me how low can I fall. Plus, mine at least wasn't full of grammar mistakes and actually had one or two original sentences. And it was a 4-part short story of 4 pages. 4-part. 4 pages. Personal low indeed. They said it was good and they liked it. I believed them. Worst of all, tey weren't lying. Thank goodness I stopped writing when that site went down because with no one to criticise me, I would probably be just as bad now.

Tl;dr Ripping a fic apart actually helps. Hell, they may be elitists over at Serebii, but they thought me something by ripping PLX to tiny pieces when I tried out writing again.

 

[White Len]

Well you can't exactly rip a fic apart if the fic isn't there in the first place...

 

[Shiay]

But still, if someone had ripped apart my very first writing way back then (years ago), that would've been a good favor. A great one. I only keep that idocy I wrote to remind me how low can I fall. Plus, mine at least wasn't full of grammar mistakes and actually had one or two original sentences. And it was a 4-part short story of 4 pages. 4-part. 4 pages. Personal low indeed. They said it was good and they liked it. I believed them. Worst of all, tey weren't lying. Thank goodness I stopped writing when that site went down because with no one to criticise me, I would probably be just as bad now.

Quite unfortunate that not everyone is you, even though I agree. However, also, apparently unlike you, I have had my first serious work ripped apart. I was almost unwilling to write something else that was serious till about a year later. This workshop is not about you, Aladar, sad to say. It is about the others that will be here in this workshop and writing. There will be a difference between those who will critique and those who don't have the spine to do as such... which again, I shall quote myself:

If I may, I say that there should be some people in the workshop that are specifically there for critiques. People that can offer a bout of good advice for a beginning writer. After all, we're not all gems when we start off, why should we discriminate against those who need or want the help and advice?

The idea of a workshop is that it's supposed to be a place for people to work on their... well, work. You can call the 'stuff entered in the quick reply box' illiterate all you want, but sometimes that's really all kids know. The idea is not to discourage kids from something that they could someday be really great at, the idea is to help them if they want it. Which is why suggested the other forum.

 

[Aladar]

Last thing I'm saying is that it's all about me. S'much as I want it

As I said, seprate forums are possible, but don't you think the not-serious one is going to be kinda looked down on as the sub-par fic section?