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Writers' Workshop General Chat Thread

AiedailEclipsed said:
So. Uhm. How to begin. I've made forays into writing before to moderate success, I suppose. However, this time I'd like to get somethings right from the start. One thing I've always struggled with in writing was point of view. What do you guys do as far as that? First? Third? This has probably been my greatest deterrent in writing, as I always get caught up in trying to get this one thing right and it generally goes to pot after that.

Also, just for opinions, as I'd like to start reading and reviewing some stories: which stories are "good?" Obviously, there are many, but just to name a few as a good starting point. I'm already reading SE's Fritz Westmyn story, just to let you know.

Dear God, I'm such an awkward turtle.
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This seems more fitting for the General Writing Questions thread; you might get more help there.

In any case, I write in third person all the time. First person just seems too limiting, and there's nothing that it can do that a third person perspective can't do. You can portray your character's feelings, emotions and inner thoughts just as well in third person if you know how to work around it.
 
I, too, write in third-person most of the time.

Also you should read A Pokemon Story, which is my fic.
 
Kyuuketsuki said:
In any case, I write in third person all the time. First person just seems too limiting, and there's nothing that it can do that a third person perspective can't do. You can portray your character's feelings, emotions and inner thoughts just as well in third person if you know how to work around it.
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Seems. There's plenty of advantages to writing in the first person. One of the more interesting ones is the character's personality coming off in the narration, which you can have some real fun with. When combined with present tense like I have it, you can REALLY do crazy things. Just like with third person, there are problems - but you can work around those problems just as well.
 
System Error said:
Seems. There's plenty of advantages to writing in the first person. One of the more interesting ones is the character's personality coming off in the narration, which you can have some real fun with. When combined with present tense like I have it, you can REALLY do crazy things. Just like with third person, there are problems - but you can work around those problems just as well.
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Again, the characters and their personalities can be portrayed just as well in third person than in first person. Personally, I prefer to know about all the characters through the unbiased eyes of the narrator, rather than the perception of one character.
 
I normally write in third person because I prefer that, but I've done first person a couple times. My Cilan fic is first person, for example. I also wrote a first person oneshot for Fire Emblem about Ike, but that's one of the stories I only have posted on fanfiction.net. And even then, it's part of a collection of short stories.

I also recently wrote another FE oneshot that's third person, but most of it does kinda feel like first person, I suppose. This one is its own separate thing on my ff.net account though.
 
Kyuuketsuki said:
System Error said:
Seems. There's plenty of advantages to writing in the first person. One of the more interesting ones is the character's personality coming off in the narration, which you can have some real fun with. When combined with present tense like I have it, you can REALLY do crazy things. Just like with third person, there are problems - but you can work around those problems just as well.
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Again, the characters and their personalities can be portrayed just as well in third person than in first person. Personally, I prefer to know about all the characters through the unbiased eyes of the narrator, rather than the perception of one character.
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It's like you completely missed what I was saying~

See, the counterpoint to an unbiased narrator is also that you'll also likely get a bland narrator. With first person, you have a lot more leniency. On the other hand, omniscience is pretty much impossible with it if that's what you want to do. Yet it's not always a bad thing to be vague - and first person can really let you do that in ways that even top tier third person can't hope to match. As well as making it fun for the reader to think about what could be unknown, or trying to look from a different perspective than the one given. It doesn't necessarily affect anything. And it's even possible to have a reasonably neutral first person narrator!

Really, there's upsides and downsides to both styles. The decision should not be just about characterization! If it was, then by the same token, since you can portray the characters and their personalities just as well in first person as you can in third, as well as there being distinct advantages to first, one could make a very similar argument as to why the former is superior to the latter in every way. But in the end and in truth, it's really up to what you're going for from a story perspective.
 
System Error said:
It's like you completely missed what I was saying~

See, the counterpoint to an unbiased narrator is also that you'll also likely get a bland narrator. With first person, you have a lot more leniency. On the other hand, omniscience is pretty much impossible with it if that's what you want to do. Yet it's not always a bad thing to be vague - and first person can really let you do that in ways that even top tier third person can't hope to match. As well as making it fun for the reader to think about what could be unknown, or trying to look from a different perspective than the one given. It doesn't necessarily affect anything. And it's even possible to have a reasonably neutral first person narrator!

Really, there's upsides and downsides to both styles. The decision should not be just about characterization! If it was, then by the same token, since you can portray the characters and their personalities just as well in first person as you can in third, as well as there being distinct advantages to first, one could make a very similar argument as to why the former is superior to the latter in every way. But in the end and in truth, it's really up to what you're going for from a story perspective.
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Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is told in third-person, yet it has all the qualities you just mentioned. Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages for both of them, but as I said, I personally prefer a third-person perspective, because to have an unbiased narrator in first-person is more often than not is to have a boring narrator. There can be a few gems, but they are rare to find.

I prefer to be able to see what other character's are doing, and piecing the event on my own without having all the characters get together and give all their information to the main character so they can do it for me; that is what I meant when I said that a first-person perspective was too limiting. It's all personal preference after all, and from the books I've read, a third-person perspective does a much better job of drawing me into the story than a first-person perspective.
 
The Harry Potter books use what's known as "third-person limited" viewpoint for the most part.
 
Kyuuketsuki said:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is told in third-person, yet it has all the qualities you just mentioned. Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages for both of them, but as I said, I personally prefer a third-person perspective, because to have an unbiased narrator in first-person is more often than not is to have a boring narrator. There can be a few gems, but they are rare to find.
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A gem is far more valuable than an ordinary stone. With third person, you're bland no matter what you do. Though maybe I'm just the kind of person who thinks big?

Kyuuketsuki said:
I prefer to be able to see what other character's are doing, and piecing the event on my own without having all the characters get together and give all their information to the main character so they can do it for me; that is what I meant when I said that a first-person perspective was too limiting. It's all personal preference after all, and from the books I've read, a third-person perspective does a much better job of drawing me into the story than a first-person perspective.
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Seeing what other characters are doing is a fair point. Piecing the events on your own is actually theoretically better in first person, since you don't have that direct expositioning option available (I actually do this a lot in my own fic)! It's so simple to put info there for the readers to notice without the characters noticing/mentioning it that it's stupid. Having characters get together to convey information is just bad writing, in first or third person.
 
I also tend to write in first person. Not by any conscious choice, that's just the way it happens when I start writing. It probably has something to do with the fact that I see the world in first person ;P

Something to keep in mind is that you don't necessarily always have to stick to one POV. I often do scene changes to things outside of the perception of my main character, and those scenes are done in third person. I haven't heard any complaints about it breaking the flow or anything, so I assume it works fine.
 
I like first-person perspective when the narrator is intended to be unreliable, though I haven't really seen that very much in fanfics (mostly because it's hard as hell to do).
 
System Error said:
A gem is far more valuable than an ordinary stone. With third person, you're bland no matter what you do. Though maybe I'm just the kind of person who thinks big?

Seeing what other characters are doing is a fair point. Piecing the events on your own is actually theoretically better in first person, since you don't have that direct expositioning option available (I actually do this a lot in my own fic)! It's so simple to put info there for the readers to notice without the characters noticing/mentioning it that it's stupid. Having characters get together to convey information is just bad writing, in first or third person.
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Seems like we're just repeating what the other has said now. :p

Anyway, I guess it just comes down to personal preference. As I said, for me first-person seems limiting, and I prefer a third-person perspective.

AetherX said:
I also tend to write in first person. Not by any conscious choice, that's just the way it happens when I start writing. It probably has something to do with the fact that I see the world in first person ;P
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Not me. I have an arial view of my life; makes it hard to cross the street.

Now, while I have your attention... I have started reading Unpredictable, and I just finished the first chapter. Would you like individual reviews for each chapter, or one review for each arc? I was planning on having each arc on its own, but it's up to you and your preference.
 
Whoops, I probably should've clarified it a bit more. First person in itself is easy, first person with an unreliable narrator is...considerably not very easy.

Mostly because there's the assumption that narration (in first or third person) is objective, so if you're going to have an unreliable narrator, the author needs to leave enough clues (without being too heavy-handed) that what the narrator says is happening isn't what's actually happening.
 
Kyuuketsuki said:
Now, while I have your attention... I have started reading Unpredictable, and I just finished the first chapter. Would you like individual reviews for each chapter, or one review for each arc? I was planning on having each arc on its own, but it's up to you and your preference.
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Please don't go through the trouble of writing one for each chapter, that would be way too much work! One per arc is fine if that's what you want to do.

That probably means I should get to writing...
 
So since I'm completely tapped for nickname resources in Heart of Crystal which btw aie you should also totally read, Morty ended up with a team full of Homestuck references.

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I don't know... I trust you and your writing, but the whole "Nuzlocke challenge story" premise seems weird. I mean, more like a blog than a story. But I haven't looked at it actually, so I don't know. Maybe I'm a crazy bitch.

EDIT: PAH! I read like the first sentence and glazed over the next bit. Totally wasn't what I thought it was. I'll be reading that! Got me hooked already. Love your writing style. Mmm.
 
AetherX said:
Please don't go through the trouble of writing one for each chapter, that would be way too much work! One per arc is fine if that's what you want to do.

That probably means I should get to writing...
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Alright then, arc to arc it is.
 
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