Mafia Fire Emblem Fates Mafia ~ Endgame ~ (Together We Fall) ~ Vallite Forces Win

[HumanDawn]

mine also says I have to defeat 2 factions

two factions, neither mentioned by name.

It took until I looked in-thread this morning to go look back at my role PM, and then I noticed that the other factions were indeed named as Vallite Forces and the other faction which I will not name.

all right i want to clear this up

is it mentioned... or NOT?

I know I'm not Mido, but I have to think that the possibility is very strong. Given what we know about the plot of the relevant game, there's a very strong chance that 'Corrin's Army' is a cult faction.

EDIT: Oh and why would you think I'm Vallite considering I voted for one right away. Considering I'm pretty sure that Corrin's Army = Vallite.

Vallites have the power to convert others to do their bidding by abusing their very personal weaknesses. I think it makes more sense for them to be a Cult than Corrin, and honestly, this pushing by both you and FinalArcadia on me is starting to make me think you two might be part of some Vallite Cult, though I know Nightkills are in the game so having the two together would be pretty OP...

 

[HumanDawn]

I say we let Human be. I honestly think he's indep and not cult.

I am curious about why @SwordMaster♪ Doesn't have factions listed.

If yours are mentioned then Sword Master is probably lying of neither being mentioned by name. Two people saying they know the armies but Sword Master doesn't have his is awfully suspicious.

 

[DarthWolf]

My role only confirms that Nightkills are definitely in the game.

Bodyguard, LOL. Now do you see why I thought this was purely a Town vs Mafia game??

Could there be a chance of each faction, or at least Hoshido and Nohr, having 1 player who can NK?

all right i want to clear this up

is it mentioned... or NOT?

It is for me.

 

[HumanDawn]

Could there be a chance of each faction, or at least Hoshido and Nohr, having 1 player who can NK?

I can't imagine that. That would make the game too quick...

It is for me.

UNVOTE: Space
VOTE: SwordMaster

 

[Midorikawa]

all right i want to clear this up

is it mentioned... or NOT?



Vallites have the power to convert others to do their bidding by abusing their very personal weaknesses. I think it makes more sense for them to be a Cult than Corrin, and honestly, this pushing by both you and FinalArcadia on me is starting to make me think you two might be part of some Vallite Cult, though I know Nightkills are in the game so having the two together would be pretty OP...

FAs wasn't unclear. She's saying she's not vallite but is hoshido and nohr. It's best for us to not out our alignment since a hoshido an or nohrian can decide to kill us if we do. I think both factions should fear FA though bcaise I think her, Elieson, and I are most likely to bus to win.

If there is anyone like swordmaster then they should come out.

Could there be a chance of each faction, or at least Hoshido and Nohr, having 1 player who can NK?

It is for me.

You mean a vig?

On an interesting note Rocket hasn't denied the possibility of being vallite unless I missed it.

 

[DarthWolf]

It's best for us to not out our alignment since a hoshido an or nohrian can decide to kill us if we do.

On an interesting note Rocket hasn't denied the possibility of being vallite unless I missed it.

That just brings it closer to alignment claiming

You mean a vig?

Yes, didn't think of that somehow.

 

[HumanDawn]

FAs wasn't unclear. She's saying she's not vallite but is hoshido and nohr. It's best for us to not out our alignment since a hoshido an or nohrian can decide to kill us if we do. I think both factions should fear FA though bcaise I think her, Elieson, and I are most likely to bus to win.

No, I meant about them having the factions they need to kill mentioned by name or not, not to actually say them.

 

[Hector]

I did deny, it just got buried in the flurry of recent posts in the last half hour or so (Basically I'm running off the three faction assumption, which would make it weird that I was voting right away for someone that I thought was Vallite in HD if I myself was a Vallite).

And I really want to hear a claim for Swordmaster now.

 

[FinalArcadia]

Not knowing how to best approach the game does not excuse a serious lack of logic being used. OK, if 4 factions do not fit then which side would Corrin be? You could pull the argument that Corrin is actually the Mafia who went crazy and wants Nohr and Hoshido dead, but then why if I was part of the Vallite Forces would I say I'm part of Corrin's Army? One lynch on a Vallite Force revealing that it's Corrin and his retainers would mean that I'm lying and I'd be next on the chopping block. The Corrin's Army win con not being mentioned might have to do with it being more Independent because apparently it's its own thing. The only faction that benefits from killing any member of Corrin's Army is the Vallite Forces because it is in direct opposition to them since I only need the Vallite Forces dead. The more I think about it the more it makes sense that if Corrin's Army beats the Vallite Forces first then everyone else wins.

If there weren't 4 factions, then Corrin would make the most sense as a Vallite since both he and Azura are literally of Vallite origin. That's the point I'd been trying to make and why I had voted you. My thinking was that you might've claimed Corrin's Army to avoid outing as Vallite since nobody else has made any mention of knowing of the existence of Corrin's Army as a faction. In fact, I still don't think anyone has. However, I do see what you're saying about Corrin v. Valla since it would be kinda weird if Corrin was suddenly fighting his siblings from both sides. So I dunno, I guess I can accept the possibility of Corrin's Army existing for the now anyway, and bodyguard - if true - makes sense with someone who'd be Corrin-aligned.

UNVOTE: HumanDawn

Vallites have the power to convert others to do their bidding by abusing their very personal weaknesses. I think it makes more sense for them to be a Cult than Corrin, and honestly, this pushing by both you and FinalArcadia on me is starting to make me think you two might be part of some Vallite Cult, though I know Nightkills are in the game so having the two together would be pretty OP...

But why would I have tried to target Vallites in particular? Somebody had to be targeted, and at the time you seemed to be the best choice to me since, like I said before, there hasn't been proof of a fourth faction existing. And Rocket Queen's vote isn't connected to mine since I have no idea who else is in my faction (...okay, I have a good idea of a few potential allies based on some posts, but you know what I mean lol).

 

[FinalArcadia]

all right i want to clear this up

is it mentioned... or NOT?

Shoot, I knew I forgot something in those quotes. Yeah, the factions that I need eliminated are explicitly stated in my role PM by name.

 

[HumanDawn]

But why would I have tried to target Vallites in particular? Somebody had to be targeted, and at the time you seemed to be the best choice to me since, like I said before, there hasn't been proof of a fourth faction existing. And Rocket Queen's vote isn't connected to mine since I have no idea who else is in my faction (...okay, I have a good idea of a few potential allies based on some posts, but you know what I mean lol).

You could have been pretending to...? It just rubbed me the wrong way how both of you were so insistent on me being a Vallite and potentially a Cultist when there was proof of none. How is a 4th faction so hard to believe with no proof existing for it as you say, but a Cultist is much more easier?

 

[FinalArcadia]

You could have been pretending to...? It just rubbed me the wrong way how both of you were so insistent on me being a Vallite and potentially a Cultist when there was proof of none. How is a 4th faction so hard to believe with no proof existing for it as you say, but a Cultist is much more easier?

I don't know how I was "so insistent"? I had a grand total of two posts (prior to my last set of responses to you) where I said why I was voting you and even then I wasn't exactly pushing hard to get everyone on the wagon. Just explaining why I thought you were the best lynch and why I thought you could be a Vallite.

Cult is easier to believe since Elementar outright said the game is bastard. It seems like in the vast majority of games where it is bastard, cult pops up. That or jester, and jester doesn't seem to fit anyone in Fates. That plus the fact that cult fits Vallites pretty well is why. The OP gave me reason to think cults could be a thing, but nothing had led me to believe in a fourth faction up until you claimed bodyguard which sorta makes it easier to believe.
----
VOTE: DarthWolf13

Again, I'm looking for Vallites. SwordMaster's Nohrian claim seems legit, and I'm willing to believe Rocket Queen's claim that seems to be Hoshidan. I agree with Iteru's logic he used in his Rocket Queen vote, but given what I said about RQ's claim, DarthWolf is the other person who voted our Nohrian friend SwordMaster and therefore is either Hoshidan or Vallite. 50/50 odds of hitting Vallite. That and... I am at a loss here on what to do lol

 

[HumanDawn]

I don't know how I was "so insistent"? I had a grand total of two posts (prior to my last set of responses to you) where I said why I was voting you and even then I wasn't exactly pushing hard to get everyone on the wagon. Just explaining why I thought you were the best lynch and why I thought you could be a Vallite.

oHHHH i think stubborn is probably a better word...

----
VOTE: DarthWolf13

Again, I'm looking for Vallites. SwordMaster's Nohrian claim seems legit, and I'm willing to believe Rocket Queen's claim that seems to be Hoshidan.

Why do you think they are legit and are willing to believe them for now?

 

[FinalArcadia]

Why do you think they are legit and are willing to believe them for now?

With SwordMaster, I feel like the fact that they claimed Nohrian before this whole discussion on the factions happened makes the claim seem genuine. Just the way the claim happened feels legit imo, what with the mention of the game they played and all. For Rocket Queen, her point that she was trying to find Vallites makes sense and given that I was doing the same I'm inclined to believe it. So then she must be Hoshidan because of voting SwordMaster. I guess a lot of it is just the vibes I get from the posts and taking a leap of faith admittedly.

 

[Elieson]

This day has been hell on wheels...I'm actually on the phone with a client now but I've been working on this post literally for the entire day.

Can we just stop for a fucking minute and talk about how miserable of a character Takumi is,

Spoiler

and then proceed with the game by looking for scum? We're hunting multiple factions based on a game's OP flavortext and it probably boils down to nothing more than [(H v N) v V]. What Cappy said here;

I guess this means that Vallite in this instance acts as the mafia in this game. I think our primary focus, Nohr or Hoshido, should be to seek out the Vallite and lynch them.

implies the simple premise of the game, being hunting for mafia. If it's multiball, hunt for people assumed to be in a faction that you're not aligned with, and if it's TwoTown then Vallite is mafia in which case what we should've been doing all along rather than splitting our focus on game mechanic assumptions is actually looking for mafia, when the OP stated the fact and there should literally be no more discussion until we start seeing RolePM flips that identify how unknown mechanics would work.

TBH I agree with what Cappy said and he summed up pretty much what I've been boiling about. I hope you're not a hotheaded Sniper with a laser bow, because I'd hate to agree with you and don't confirm/deny it since we're not allowed to remember

##Unvote Midorikawa

@Mido I followed up the post of mine that you quoted with a follow up attack of my own, attacking myself for screwing up and misreading your stuff (that I had even quoted). Please do the same for me. Unvoting because I feel like you're so dedicated to figuring out the game's character structure that you're putting puzzle solving ahead of player solving and that it's just a process I haven't seen you use since I haven't played with you in a multiball game. It's easy to stall discussion of hunting for an enemy faction when you bring up mechanic discussion but at this point, me shouting about it isn't gonna change how you play so it's fruitless effort. If you're dead set on breaking the mystery of the game's setup, then I expect you to do something with it. Seriously though, who cares if Xander or Sakura are in the game. Will it help your faction and your wincon knowing that Elise probably exists and Effie probably does not (just an example)?

I'm feeling iffy about DarthWolf because of his jump from the probable holy white ship Samurai onto an easy lynch. It feels extremely lazy and more like an attempt to just hope something would stick, which is something I can't see town (well, Nohr/Hoshido) actually doing out of caution from hitting their own.

This just made it easier for me.
Vote: SwordMaster♪

##Vote DarthWolf13

I'm not trying to guess all the characters, heck I'm positive on some of them already. I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about this game. It is a mutli-faction game with THREE factions against each other. Normal scumhunting won't work in this particular case, as I've tried to get through.

Are you reading the thread? My last few posts have had stuff that is relevant to this game. How can you scumhunt if there is no scum?

Scum is a faction that you're not aligned with. Scumhunting is removing players from the game that aren't aligned with you by having an alignment that while alive, conflicts with yours. Are there factions that you need removed? Yes? Then there's scum. Go find em.

Your RolePM says what it says, implying that you have enemies that need to die. I strongly suggest you look for people not in your faction by looking for people acting like scum, because in this game, the odds of a mislynch happening are significantly lower than usual.

If I've missed some critical case of yours as for a lynch candidate, you should totally quote one of your own posts outlining it so I can get slapped in the face for not reading clearly.

Yep, I've also got two factions, and both are mentioned by name. Not sure how we're going to go about this game though since it's already obvious who which faction about 3 people are not at this point, but then to side with or against them pretty much gives away a hint about your own too.

Is it possible that Human could be a Vallite who didn't want to give away his faction, since up until recently Vallites seemed to be considered the "scum" of this game? If everyone seems to be fitting the "defeat x and x to win" thing, then he's either lying or a legitimate independent of some sort.

VOTE: HumanDawn

But about a Valla cult, that seems like it'd make sense both thematically and also with the game being explicitly bastard in the OP.

if HD's part of Corrin's unique army then that implies that there's potentially 4 factions, and if I didn't know any better, I'd say that the setup is then either 4:4:4:3 or 5:5:4:1 (with the 1 or 3 being a Cult; the 3 being a cult with 2 members and 1 recruiter, which isn't really all that imbalanced depending on theoretical recruitment mechanics, like a no N1 conversion attempt etc). I can see Corrin's Army being a cult in the sense that he recruits like everybody to join his army, but it's spec at that. Even then, if CA is a cult of sorts, it doesn't make HD the Leader. All we have is that he's some element of a faction. A Cult doesn't need to literally be an embodiment of evil, it just needs to be represented by explanation.

Regardless, I've less interest in going after a Nohrian (Swordmaster) and more in going after someone that flat out isn't allied with Hoshido or Nohr, since the odds of them being a threat in some way are both.

eeeeehhhhhhhhhhh...

Bodyguard, LOL. Now do you see why I thought this was purely a Town vs Mafia game??

You poor kiddo :/

##F.o.S. HumanDawn

I'm not comfortable enough to vote for this yet but I'm really tempted to, between confirmed bastard setup, legitimate cult possibility and a downright sad (as in, i feel bad for anyone ever being bodyguard) claim. FWIW though we could lynch you and get the cult thing thrown out into the open...if you're Corrin's army and your rolePM doesn't reveal anything Cult-ish, you'd still pull a victory with your alliance even if you're dead. Not sayin, but just sayin.


I dunno I feel like people just didn't read the OP clearly and missed the part where Elementar stated:

... This is a multi-faction game. It is also a role-madness bastard game...

I joined out of obligation to the franchise but I dislike bastard mechanics

 

[HumanDawn]

I like the case on Darth but I still find Sword Master's claim of not knowing the faction's name suspicious and would like an explanation.

You poor kiddo :/

##F.o.S. HumanDawn

I'm not comfortable enough to vote for this yet but I'm really tempted to, between confirmed bastard setup, legitimate cult possibility and a downright sad (as in, i feel bad for anyone ever being bodyguard) claim. FWIW though we could lynch you and get the cult thing thrown out into the open...if you're Corrin's army and your rolePM doesn't reveal anything Cult-ish, you'd still pull a victory with your alliance even if you're dead. Not sayin, but just sayin'

Don't Cults win when the amount of people they cult is over the total amount of players? I have no idea about any Cult, my win condition is to just defeat the Vallite Forces and if I knew I was part of a Cult I wouldn't have said when I didn't need to that I was allied with the 4th faction of the game. I'd only manage to pull a victory if the Vallite Forces are dead. I'd probably be Nightkilled first because the Vallites would rather keep a Nohr/Hoshidan alive to go at each other rather than a direct threat.

 

[SwordMaster♪]

That's weird. It doesn't mention Hoshido, Nohr, or Vallite at all?

Sorry, not what I meant to say. I'm sort of sick and not quite focused. But it mentions all three.

And wow buddied D1 two games in a row.

Buddying might be worth taking note of, since in my experience the mafia tends to latch on to townies. Though townies can do it too, so just... worth noting.

And I really want to hear a claim for Swordmaster now.

As a policy, I'm opposed to claiming day 1, since it can either draw mafia attention to or away from me, depending on the importance of my role.

 

[HumanDawn]

Sorry, not what I meant to say. I'm sort of sick and not quite focused. But it mentions all three.

All "three"? Not all "two"?

 

[Midorikawa]

All "three"? Not all "two"?

All two would be strange. It should be something like: You are aligned with Nohr and win when Hoshido and Vallite are defeated.

That isn't the exact words from the role pens. It it's something like that.

 

[Feenie]

I didn't expect to see so many pages (I've missed) getting back home.

Don't Cults win when the amount of people they cult is over the total amount of players? I have no idea about any Cult, my win condition is to just defeat the Vallite Forces and if I knew I was part of a Cult I wouldn't have said when I didn't need to that I was allied with the 4th faction of the game. I'd only manage to pull a victory if the Vallite Forces are dead.

Just to clarify since others have done so as well, my role states that I win when two other factions are eliminated as well. I can't really be sure you aren't with the Vallite Forces and if there even really is a fourth faction because I see no evidence of this. In a game of this size I see it as being unlikely unless you're being truthful about the Corrin's army thing which would in fact make you seem like you're a Cult.

I'd probably be Nightkilled first because the Vallites would rather keep a Nohr/Hoshidan alive to go at each other rather than a direct threat.

This statement makes me iffy. To be honest I'm kind of confused on some things like if there even will be nightkills. Unless Vallite Forces are the ones with nightkills because I don't see how Nohr/Hoshido could both be doing that (not counting if either side has some kind of vig ability etc). That'd only leave possibly the Vallite Forces being able to and I'm still not even sure what Vallite Forces means.

And I really want to hear a claim for Swordmaster now.

What will you gain from getting a claim from SwordMaster?