How Can I Use Pokemon X?

[TerraTF]

Hydreigon was fazed out due to typing primarily, haxorus dropping i did'nt even know about

The main thing I was aiming for is that if one of Politoed or Ninetails dropped (even though it would never happen in gen5), would smogon drop them to BL? they are not that strong and honestly are 1-dimensional as a weather starter, so if they did drop to UU, can you imagine the other pokemon that would too?

Last I saw, Politoed and Ninetales were actually NU! Rather than ban the Pokemon themselves, Drizzle and Drought were banned in NU and RU (not sure about UU, but I can't imagine it would have been).

All weather starting abilities are banned outside of OU except for Hail (Abomasnow) and Sand (Hippopotas).

I thought i stated it was gen 5

You did not. All weather forms were banned to OU in Gen 5 iirc. Sun and Rain were banned from lower tiers because that is where a majority of the Pokemon down there get a large source of their power.

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

I have recently bred a 5IV Dratini, with perfect IVs in everything except SP Attack. He will definitely be trained in Attack and his only definite move so far is extreme speed. He has his hidden ability Multiscale. I need a few suggestions on the best way to EV train Dragonite.

It was coming down to either training both of his defences, or his speed. I am thinking EV training his speed won't be necessary considering he isn't the fastest, and he has Extreme Speed for fast attacking.

I am currently thinking to EV train his attack as 252 EVs, and split the other 252 into both defences, while the remaining 4 EVs can go into HP. I'm also thinking his moves can be Dragon Rush, Roost, Earthquake and Extreme Speed. He will hold a Zoom lens in order to boost the accuracy of Dragon Rush.

What do you think of that EV training method? What are your thoughts on his moveset and held item? How would you suggest to train Dragonite?

Merged you into the proper thread.

252 Atk/252 Spe is standard, but splitting into defenses is a bad idea (and always is in general). If you want a bulky Dragonite use this:

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 216 HP / 64 Atk / 228 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

If you want an offensive Dragonite use this:

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

Or this:

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw/Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake/Fire Punch

Apologies for originally posting this in the wrong thread. I suspected it might have been but I was in a little bit of a rush when I typed it. May I ask why training Dragonite's defences is a bad idea? I was thinking of training his speed stat, however considering Dragonite isn't the fastest and he has etreme speed, I wasn't sure if it was a good idea or not.

It is never a good idea to train defenses without training HP first. You will always get more mileage out of 252 HP/252 (S)Def than 252 Def/252 SDef. Offensive DNite should always run max Spe: the Band set is a wallbreaker so it runs Speed to outpace things like Skarmory and Mandibuzz. The DDance set boosts its speed to sweep so it invests in Speed to give it a decent base to build on.

Would it be a good idea to ev train HP and attack if he wouldn't have good defences to cover the high HP? I apologise if I sound like I'm questioning you too much, I'm sure you have a better understanding on this than I do. I've EV trained Dragonite in the past but this time I want to get it as perfect as I can while training it in a way that suits me. How highly would you recommend training attack and HP over attack and both defences? If Dragonite had both defences trained to 126 evs, has multiscale and roost, would that not be efficient?

My last Dragonite was EV trained in Attack and Speed, 252 EVs respectively. I think it fared okay in battle, but now I have one with 5IVs in extreme speed I think this one will have even more potential.

Also, if I did hypothetically decide not to ev train speed, and teach it Dragon Rush while holding Zoom lens to bring accuracy up to 90%, is that a bad idea? I don't plan on using outrage because I believe it is too great a risk, and I normally use Dragon Claw instead.

EV training 128 per Def is a terrible idea, but so is 252 HP/252 Atk. Use one of these 3 spreads I posted, otherwise you're being inefficient with your EVs.

That's perfect for offensive Dragonite. No need to change it.

Dragon Rush is garbage. Use Outrage or DClaw.

So raising defences is bad in general for most Pokemon or just Dragonite? Will raising his speed make him fast enough to be worth ev training speed? There would be plenty of Pokemon faster than him, which is the main reason why I have my doubts on ev training speed if he still ends up slower than a lot of Pokemon, but still having extreme speed. Will Dragonite still not able to take hits well if his defences were trained? That was another concern of mine, raising his defences but still being taken out easily from those ice type moves.

Raising Defences before HP is a bad idea on every Pokémon except Chansey, Blissey, AV Tentacruel, and AV Conkeldurr,

Yes, it will make him fast enough to be worth it.

Dragonite takes hits like a boss even without defensive training due to Multiscale, but he can become a great wall if you want him to be. The first set I posted, CBBNite, is a fantastic tank - the EV spread is designed to always beat Landorus even after Stealth Rock, but tat's not its only purpose - it's a great special tank in general.

Thank you, I will put speed into good consideration before I attempt to ev train Dragonite. It has just been putting me off a little considering it's quite low, and also his lowest stat.

One last Question, would it also be a bad idea to EV train his attack to 252, and split the second 252 evs into hp and special defence? would it only be useful to raise those two stats if you raise them the full 252 evs, or will 128 in each stat be efficient?

 

[TerraTF]

One last Question, would it also be a bad idea to EV train his attack to 252, and split the second 252 evs into hp and special defence? would it only be useful to raise those two stats if you raise them the full 252 evs, or will 128 in each stat be efficient?

128 in a stat is bad on almost every Pokemon. I definitely recommend going with the CBnite set. Can take a burn and keep on moving. With Extremespeed it also outspeeds a Gale Wings Talonflame.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

One last Question, would it also be a bad idea to EV train his attack to 252, and split the second 252 evs into hp and special defence? would it only be useful to raise those two stats if you raise them the full 252 evs, or will 128 in each stat be efficient?

128 in a stat is bad on almost every Pokemon. I definitely recommend going with the CBnite set. Can take a burn and keep on moving. With Extremespeed it also outspeeds a Gale Wings Talonflame.

If you max his Atk, you must max his speed. If you want to go bulky, you must use CBBNite (CrashingBoomBangNite, the first set I posted, not to be confused with CBNite aka Choice Banded Dragonite). There is no viable in between.

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

One last Question, would it also be a bad idea to EV train his attack to 252, and split the second 252 evs into hp and special defence? would it only be useful to raise those two stats if you raise them the full 252 evs, or will 128 in each stat be efficient?

128 in a stat is bad on almost every Pokemon. I definitely recommend going with the CBnite set. Can take a burn and keep on moving. With Extremespeed it also outspeeds a Gale Wings Talonflame.

If you max his Atk, you must max his speed. If you want to go bulky, you must use CBBNite (CrashingBoomBangNite, the first set I posted, not to be confused with CBNite aka Choice Banded Dragonite). There is no viable in between.

Then I shall take your advice. I trust your judgment and if you believe Dragonite works best with a max speed along with attack, I shall do so. I was worried about his low speed, but considering you recommend highly that his speed ev must be trained, I'll trust that. I'm willing to bet you have much more ev training eperience than I. I didn't even start ev training until last gen. I was hoping I'd be able to go ma attack and still be really bulky at the same time, although I see where you're coming from in that defence must be trained to the maximum in order to be useful.

Since I will EV train his speed, I will go with Dragon claw. Dragon rush seemed like a good idea, but only with zoom lens.

I appreciate your advice. I will ev train his Attack and Speed, and perhaps add those 4 extra evs into hp or sp defence. I will work out the rest from there. Thank you.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

One last Question, would it also be a bad idea to EV train his attack to 252, and split the second 252 evs into hp and special defence? would it only be useful to raise those two stats if you raise them the full 252 evs, or will 128 in each stat be efficient?

128 in a stat is bad on almost every Pokemon. I definitely recommend going with the CBnite set. Can take a burn and keep on moving. With Extremespeed it also outspeeds a Gale Wings Talonflame.

If you max his Atk, you must max his speed. If you want to go bulky, you must use CBBNite (CrashingBoomBangNite, the first set I posted, not to be confused with CBNite aka Choice Banded Dragonite). There is no viable in between.

Then I shall take your advice. I trust your judgment and if you believe Dragonite works best with a max speed along with attack, I shall do so. I was worried about his low speed, but considering you recommend highly that his speed ev must be trained, I'll trust that. I'm willing to bet you have much more ev training eperience than I. I didn't even start ev training until last gen. I was hoping I'd be able to go ma attack and still be really bulky at the same time, although I see where you're coming from in that defence must be trained to the maximum in order to be useful.

Since I will EV train his speed, I will go with Dragon claw. Dragon rush seemed like a good idea, but only with zoom lens.

I appreciate your advice. I will ev train his Attack and Speed, and perhaps add those 4 extra evs into hp or sp defence. I will work out the rest from there. Thank you.

Put it in HP so your HP will be odd at level 50. I don't think it matters because you're not divisible by 4 even if you're even, but it's good to get in the habit

 

[Amoebo]

Hydreigon was fazed out due to typing primarily, haxorus dropping i did'nt even know about

The main thing I was aiming for is that if one of Politoed or Ninetails dropped (even though it would never happen in gen5), would smogon drop them to BL? they are not that strong and honestly are 1-dimensional as a weather starter, so if they did drop to UU, can you imagine the other pokemon that would too?

Last I saw, Politoed and Ninetales were actually NU! Rather than ban the Pokemon themselves, Drizzle and Drought were banned in NU and RU (not sure about UU, but I can't imagine it would have been).

All weather starting abilities are banned outside of OU except for Hail (Abomasnow) and Sand (Hippopotas).

I thought i stated it was gen 5

You did not. All weather forms were banned to OU in Gen 5 iirc. Sun and Rain were banned from lower tiers because that is where a majority of the Pokemon down there get a large source of their power.

multiple pokemon that were in ou in gen5 and uu> this gen were affected by the weather, tentacool and vaporeon are the only ones that come to mind currently

 

[TerraTF]

Hydreigon was fazed out due to typing primarily, haxorus dropping i did'nt even know about

The main thing I was aiming for is that if one of Politoed or Ninetails dropped (even though it would never happen in gen5), would smogon drop them to BL? they are not that strong and honestly are 1-dimensional as a weather starter, so if they did drop to UU, can you imagine the other pokemon that would too?

Last I saw, Politoed and Ninetales were actually NU! Rather than ban the Pokemon themselves, Drizzle and Drought were banned in NU and RU (not sure about UU, but I can't imagine it would have been).

All weather starting abilities are banned outside of OU except for Hail (Abomasnow) and Sand (Hippopotas).

I thought i stated it was gen 5

You did not. All weather forms were banned to OU in Gen 5 iirc. Sun and Rain were banned from lower tiers because that is where a majority of the Pokemon down there get a large source of their power.

multiple pokemon that were in ou in gen5 and uu> this gen were affected by the weather, tentacool and vaporeon are the only ones that come to mind currently

Chlorophyll, Swift Swim, Solar Power, Hydration, Rain Dish. I'm sure I hit most of them. Those Pokemon are in just about every tier, mainly in the lower tiers. As soon as weather got nerfed most of the common Sun and Rain Pokemon fell. Pokemon like Lilligant, who was RU last gen, fell.

 

[Amoebo]

Hydreigon was fazed out due to typing primarily, haxorus dropping i did'nt even know about

The main thing I was aiming for is that if one of Politoed or Ninetails dropped (even though it would never happen in gen5), would smogon drop them to BL? they are not that strong and honestly are 1-dimensional as a weather starter, so if they did drop to UU, can you imagine the other pokemon that would too?

Last I saw, Politoed and Ninetales were actually NU! Rather than ban the Pokemon themselves, Drizzle and Drought were banned in NU and RU (not sure about UU, but I can't imagine it would have been).

All weather starting abilities are banned outside of OU except for Hail (Abomasnow) and Sand (Hippopotas).

I thought i stated it was gen 5

You did not. All weather forms were banned to OU in Gen 5 iirc. Sun and Rain were banned from lower tiers because that is where a majority of the Pokemon down there get a large source of their power.

multiple pokemon that were in ou in gen5 and uu> this gen were affected by the weather, tentacool and vaporeon are the only ones that come to mind currently

Chlorophyll, Swift Swim, Solar Power, Hydration, Rain Dish. I'm sure I hit most of them. Those Pokemon are in just about every tier, mainly in the lower tiers. As soon as weather got nerfed most of the common Sun and Rain Pokemon fell. Pokemon like Lilligant, who was RU last gen, fell.

dont see how it affected uu> because the only weather starters possible (not named abomnasnow or hippopotas) had to rely on sandstorm, rain dance, sunny day, etc

 

[TerraTF]

dont see how it affected uu> because the only weather starters possible (not named abomnasnow or hippopotas) had to rely on sandstorm, rain dance, sunny day, etc

in June Ninetales was sitting at 1.08898%, far beneath the 3.41% needed to be OU, while Politoed is sitting at 2.27551%, also below the necessary % for OU.

 

[Amoebo]

dont see how it affected uu> because the only weather starters possible (not named abomnasnow or hippopotas) had to rely on sandstorm, rain dance, sunny day, etc

in June Ninetales was sitting at 1.08898%, far beneath the 3.41% needed to be OU, while Politoed is sitting at 2.27551%, also below the necessary % for OU.

if it was june of this year then yes it would obviously be like that since drought and drizzle were nerfed to be about as effective as rain dance

back in june of last year you could barely go 2 matches without weather being used

this is why tentacruel, toxicroak, vaporeon and more are in uu> now, their weather-based abilities were so effective in permanent rain or sun, which does not exist

 

[TerraTF]

dont see how it affected uu> because the only weather starters possible (not named abomnasnow or hippopotas) had to rely on sandstorm, rain dance, sunny day, etc

in June Ninetales was sitting at 1.08898%, far beneath the 3.41% needed to be OU, while Politoed is sitting at 2.27551%, also below the necessary % for OU.

if it was june of this year then yes it would obviously be like that since drought and drizzle were nerfed to be about as effective as rain dance

back in june of last year you could barely go 2 matches without weather being used

this is why tentacruel, toxicroak, vaporeon and more are in uu> now, their weather-based abilities were so effective in permanent rain or sun, which does not exist

June of last year were nothing but weather wars because of Generation 5.

 

[Amoebo]

dont see how it affected uu> because the only weather starters possible (not named abomnasnow or hippopotas) had to rely on sandstorm, rain dance, sunny day, etc

in June Ninetales was sitting at 1.08898%, far beneath the 3.41% needed to be OU, while Politoed is sitting at 2.27551%, also below the necessary % for OU.

if it was june of this year then yes it would obviously be like that since drought and drizzle were nerfed to be about as effective as rain dance

back in june of last year you could barely go 2 matches without weather being used

this is why tentacruel, toxicroak, vaporeon and more are in uu> now, their weather-based abilities were so effective in permanent rain or sun, which does not exist

June of last year were nothing but weather wars because of Generation 5.

which is exactly what im talking about

if somehow some way politoed and ninetailes dropped in usage in gen5 that would send them to uu

would smogon move them to uu despite knowing that the move would cause multiple other pokemon to leave?

 

[TerraTF]

dont see how it affected uu> because the only weather starters possible (not named abomnasnow or hippopotas) had to rely on sandstorm, rain dance, sunny day, etc

in June Ninetales was sitting at 1.08898%, far beneath the 3.41% needed to be OU, while Politoed is sitting at 2.27551%, also below the necessary % for OU.

if it was june of this year then yes it would obviously be like that since drought and drizzle were nerfed to be about as effective as rain dance

back in june of last year you could barely go 2 matches without weather being used

this is why tentacruel, toxicroak, vaporeon and more are in uu> now, their weather-based abilities were so effective in permanent rain or sun, which does not exist

June of last year were nothing but weather wars because of Generation 5.

which is exactly what im talking about

if somehow some way politoed and ninetailes dropped in usage in gen5 that would send them to uu

would smogon move them to uu despite knowing that the move would cause multiple other pokemon to leave?

Politoed and Ninetales would not be moved from UU. Both Sun and Rain were banned from UU and lower in Gen 5.

 

[TaiCrunch]

What's a good way to use Heliolisk? Specifically VGC2014.

I see it run a lot on Sun teams with Solar Power, but I'm not a big fan of built-in Life Orb damage. I'd really like to put it on a Rain team with Dry Skin, Thunder and Surf. Other than the obvious Politoed, what are good teammates in Rain? I've been playing with the idea of Ludicolo since he can give Fake Out support, heal off what little damage he takes from Heliolisk's Surf with Giga Drain, and use Surf himself and heal Heliolisk.

 

[Wispy Willow]

Well, I have never actually used Heliolisk so I can't give you any sets or evaluate how good Dry Skin is on it (though if you do use it you might want to make it bulky (if it can actually tak a hit, that is.)) I can, however, give you some advice abbout teammates for it in the Rain, seeing as I have dabbled in it in the past.

Politoed is a nessesity, so it's garenteed to be in (along with Kingdra because Kingdra=good in the Rain.) As for the Ran Dish Ludicolo, that is very likely to work, especially if you give it an Absorb Bulb so that it's Sp. Attack raises if/when you hit it with Surf. And speaking of Surf, if you do use it (which you should BTW,) then you should also have A: a 'mon with either Water Absorb or Storm Drain, possibly Seismetoad/Lapras/Poliwhirl/Jellicent or the former and Cradilly/Gastrodon for the latter and B: Protect on any 'mon who is not imunne to Water attacks thanks to those Abilities.

 

[TaiCrunch]

Forgot about Kingdra, I'll have to toss him in. I didn't consider Absorb Bulb Ludicolo but that does sound like a fun strategy. Of the others you listed, only Lapras, Poliwrath and Cradily are legal in VGC, but I do like the idea of Freeze Dry Lapras.

Which Mega should I be looking at? I thought Manectric at first but he has too much redundant coverage with Heliolisk and adds too much of an Earthquake weakness. And something defensive like Venusaur opens me up to Talonflame.

edit: MegaMawile, I'm stupid.

 

[Wispy Willow]

Oops, I guess I forgot about the Kalos 'Dex rule on the current VGC. That's embaresing... Oh well, there's always Vaporeon/Quagsire/Lanturn for Absorb and... I don't think there's another Drainer in the Kalos 'Dex. And as for Freeze Dry Lapras... I have no idea, actually.

As for the Mega, I have no idea about how good MegaMan is, seeing as I've never used one, but if you don't want to have too many Electric types you could go with either M. Gyarados/M. Kangaskhan if you're looking for offense or M. Blastose/M. Aggron of you want a more defensive Mega... Or you could just wait 'till M. Swampert is a thing, seeing as it (apparently) is going to get Swift Swim.

 

[Zyrenus]

There's this really gimmicky team that involves Heliolisk + Plusle. It's very hard to pull off, but it can score some KO's. All you have to do is use Entrainment to pass off Plusle's Lightningrod to Heliolisk, and use Electrify

If the target has not yet moved, Electrify makes the target's move Electric-type for that turn.

It doesn't work everytime, as a lot of stuff outspeed/can knock it out quickly. I do remember electrifying foe Garchomp's Earthquake and killing my enemy's Gyarados in the process. It's more of a support for your other Pokemon, as it can redirect the damage and use the Lightningrod boost to your advantage.

Other than that My set is Focus Blast/Thunder/HP Ice/Protect under Rain and I have Thunderbolt/HP Fire/Focus Blast/Protect under sunlight support.

M-Manectric is awesome in a Rain team. You have Lightningrod available to you whenever you still need it and Intimidate once you want to go reduce the opponent's damage. But it's going to have to lose Flamethrower/Overheat in return for a No-Miss Thunder. I suggest M-Mawile instead. You can also spam Water Spout M-Blastoise too! For teammates, Swift Swim/Rain Dish Ludicolo, Kingdra, Dry Skin Toxicroak might work, and probably some Tailwind/Screens support.

 

[Amoebo]

dont see how it affected uu> because the only weather starters possible (not named abomnasnow or hippopotas) had to rely on sandstorm, rain dance, sunny day, etc

in June Ninetales was sitting at 1.08898%, far beneath the 3.41% needed to be OU, while Politoed is sitting at 2.27551%, also below the necessary % for OU.

if it was june of this year then yes it would obviously be like that since drought and drizzle were nerfed to be about as effective as rain dance

back in june of last year you could barely go 2 matches without weather being used

this is why tentacruel, toxicroak, vaporeon and more are in uu> now, their weather-based abilities were so effective in permanent rain or sun, which does not exist

June of last year were nothing but weather wars because of Generation 5.

which is exactly what im talking about

if somehow some way politoed and ninetailes dropped in usage in gen5 that would send them to uu

would smogon move them to uu despite knowing that the move would cause multiple other pokemon to leave?

Politoed and Ninetales would not be moved from UU. Both Sun and Rain were banned from UU and lower in Gen 5.

which is exactly why the usage thing is bs

the only way a key part of ou gets removed now is if its too op for it

but with something as drastic as weather smogon would be breaking one of 2 self imposed rules