Spoilers ORAS Have A Lot Of Meta In Them...

[EmpoleonProd]

Is it confirmed exactly how much time has taken place between ORAS and XY? Because it would solve the disputes in the timeline for between DPPl/HGSS -> BW

We know RSE/FRLG -3 years-> DPPl/HGSS -? years-> BW -2 years-> BW2/XY

I usually thought that number was 2-3 years.

 

[Steel_Justice]

The existence of multiple universes and time lines does explain a few things. Like how it's possible to catch Reshiram/Zekrom despite one of them being canonically owned by the BW protagonist and the other is either still with N (If you didn't battle him post game) or with the BW2 Protagonist. In the gen 6 timeline the Plasma crisis may not have happened or happened yet. I like the idea of Sinnoh remakes expanding on the idea since time, space, opposite dimensions and creation are a big part of the game's mythology there. The existence of Arceus and Giratina in Sinnoh could lead to some interesting things there since Arceus creates universes and Giratina lives in another dimension.

It really gets me thinking the Mystery Dungeon is another one of those alternate worlds but one where humans didn't end up being the dominant species on the planet.

 

[The Outrage]

@Steel_Justice;
I don't know why you'd assume the Plasma event didn't happen when the RS event happened more or less the same way, except Mega Evolution existed. And if it didn't happen, it doesn't make sense because then both dragons would still be asleep.

I heard that the Pokemon's themes are from their native games rather than a remix for ORAS. My theory on the issue is that these Pokemon come from a different dimension all together, and not the ORAS. My theory is that Hoopa Unbound has the ability to not only transport things through space in the current universe, but cross alternate universes.

Now, do I think the ORAS protagonist canonically captures all these legendaries? No. The only legendary they canonically capture is Rayquaza. These legendaries in Mirage spots are to just show Hoopa's mischief, but in terms of gameplay and story segregation, allows you to capture all legendaries.

 

[Mint0]

Is it confirmed exactly how much time has taken place between ORAS and XY? Because it would solve the disputes in the timeline for between DPPl/HGSS -> BW

We know RSE/FRLG -3 years-> DPPl/HGSS -? years-> BW -2 years-> BW2/XY

I usually thought that number was 2-3 years.

So, we got the official timeline on Twitter a while back:
http://pokecharms.com/data/attachment-files/2014/05/83663_Pokemon-RPG-Timeline.png
It's exactly the way you said it, and the correct year measurements.
We can assume since ORAS and RS are alternate universes of each other, they take place at the same time making:
ORAS/(FR/LG remake) -3 yrs> (DP and HGSS Remakes) -? yrs> (BW Remakes) -2 yrs> (BW2 Remakes)/XY
Until we find out how many years take place between DP/HGSS and BW, we can assume it's 5+ years between ORAS and XY. Professor Cozmo also mentions a person who is studying Mega Evolutions in Kalos that he wants to share data with, which is possibly Sycamore leading up to the events of XY. I'm pretty sure there's more evidence hiding around in Platinum/BW/XY/ORAS, but I can't look them up right now.

 

[Almonds]

The shiny Beldum links alternate universes within ORAS.

In Episode Delta, If you have the shiny Beldum in your party, Steven mentions that he battled Rayquaza with a boy with a black mega charizard a long time ago - and he says that the shiny Beldum reminds him of the events. The thing is, the Beldum has Steven as the OT, yet Steven himself doesn't recognize it as his own.

BUT

when you go to his house after Episode Delta, you'll find a postscript along with Steven's letter that he sent a special Beldum as a gift on our way and wonders if we received it well. ORAS!Steven knows that we get two gift Beldums throughout the game.

WHICH MEANS ORAS!Steven did give us the shiny Beldum (whether it was actually 'his' or not, ORAS!Steven was the one who sent it to us). From the Fossil Maniac's lines, he only mentioned that 'Steven' went to Kalos, and there isn't a specific date on when he went there.

Also, this:
*I would like confirmation on this part on what was said in the Japanese version because there seems to be some differences between translations.
I don't think this was present in the English translation, but in the Korean translation, Steven's Dad mentions Iron, Steven's Beldum from HGSS, and how he wants to see the shiny Beldum and Iron side-by-side. This actually confirms part of the timeline that ORAS takes place before HGSS IN THE SAME UNIVERSE because obviously Steven trades Ethan/Lyra a Beldum with the name Iron later, and is no longer with him. On a side note, Steven's Dad doesn't recognize the shiny Beldum's OT being Steven. Just pointing it out because if he supposedly knows what pokemon his son has (again, through the mention of Iron), then it's weird that he'd not know about the shiny Beldum, which has a rare color and thus difficult to forget easily. So the shiny Beldum, obviously, is not from the ORAS universe.


And finally, this:
In the ORAS demo version, Steven mentions that he'll entrust us his shiny metagross to us someday. He already evolved it though, so for him to give us the pre-evolved form of it, he'd have to have gone back in time (or, ORAS!Steven had to have met him before he evolved it) to transfer it to the player character in an alternate, past universe. Which means, the demo takes place in a future, alternate universe with the player character. So the shiny Beldum is demo!Steven's.


Conclusion: Steven can travel between alternate universes
1. ORAS!Steven has been to the anime universe and met Alain. Had a shiny Metagross, which is probably one of his many pokemons that he took with him.
2. A 'Steven' traveled to Kalos to capture the shiny Beldum. According to the demo, it is most likely Demo!Steven.
3. Demo!Steven wanted to give us the shiny Beldum. ORAS!Steven is the one who sent it to us.
4. help



*I did not include alternate universes with no mega evolution

 

[The Outrage]

@Kyriaki;
Mr. Stone only mentions Steven's Beldum--its never named.

I also think your conclusions are a bit reaching. Look at ORAS--the major events unfold much the same way as RS. One team becomes prominent and awakens their legendary, the main character defeats it. I don't think mentioning Iron means ORAS takes place in the same universe as HgSs. It just means that the same events in the (-)MEvo!HgSs are going to happen in the (+)MEvo!HgSs...except there's Mega Evolution.

The games have also been referencing the other media since forever. The most prominent example is Yellow, but we've had NPC's based on characters from Movie 6 (Butler and Diane) and 7 (Rebecca). The Mega Evolution special is no different. In fact, ORAS also references Pokemon Special with Maxie having previously encountered Jirachi (i.e., Guile Hideout plot). I doubt it means that Steven is a dimension-hopper so much that it suggest similar events happen in each canon, but they unfold differently. That conclusion isn't so strange considering the anime, Pokemon special, and nearly every other manga tries to adapt the game's plot. The only difference this time is that the game is taking from the other guys. Do I think ORAS!Steven met Alain? Sure I do. Do I think it was the same Alain from the MEvo special? No. It's the game-verse equivalent of Alain.

The events are a bit weird in general as they are just given to you without much context, and the demo is just that--a demo. I wouldn't think too much of it in terms of canon.

 

[Almonds]

@Kyriaki;
Mr. Stone only mentions Steven's Beldum--its never named.

Is that what the Japanese text says? Because I want to be absolutely sure. If they never mentioned the Beldum's name in the first place, then I'm wondering why the heck they put its name in the translation text for the Korean version :/ I am going to be really mad if this ends up being an error because there's already enough minor translation problems that's getting on my nerves.

I also think your conclusions are a bit reaching. Look at ORAS--the major events unfold much the same way as RS. One team becomes prominent and awakens their legendary, the main character defeats it. I don't think mentioning Iron means ORAS takes place in the same universe as HgSs. It just means that the same events in the (-)MEvo!HgSs are going to happen in the (+)MEvo!HgSs...except there's Mega Evolution.

I guess you have a point there.

Do I think ORAS!Steven met Alain? Sure I do. Do I think it was the same Alain from the MEvo special? No. It's the game-verse equivalent of Alain.

Sounds way better this way. I do want to see a special cameo of the game equivalent of Alain if they're ever planning future events. It would be interesting if something similar to the Mega Evolution special happened in the game verse.

The events are a bit weird in general as they are just given to you without much context, and the demo is just that--a demo. I wouldn't think too much of it in terms of canon.

A demo which hints at a future event(shiny Beldum distribution) which in turn influences major NPCs (there are several texts only available if you carry the shiny Beldum around, not to mentiom Steven's new letter). I had been debating whether or not to include the demo as part of an alternate universe but considering the shiny Beldum's influence ingame, I thought it'd be rather important. That, and it's the only way to get the Glalie/Steelix with their respective megastones (correct me if I'm wrong)

I seriously hope that this doesn't end up in a loop where it becomes

ORAS/Mega FRLG -> Mega DPPt/Mrga HGSS -> Mega BW to B2W2 -> XY -> Origins based FRLG

 

[hopeandjoy]

That, and it's the only way to get the Glalie/Steelix with their respective megastones (correct me if I'm wrong)

You can find them in the full game.

 

[Silktree]

I seriously hope that this doesn't end up in a loop where it becomes

ORAS/Mega FRLG -> Mega DPPt/Mrga HGSS -> Mega BW to B2W2 -> XY -> Origins based FRLG

I don't get what you mean. For all intents and purposes, Origins represents "Mega FRLG" and is supposed to be contemporary with the ORAS events. If for whatever reason Game Freak choose to contradict Origins, then it simply won't be part of the game canon.

 

[The Outrage]

I don't really see Steven as an interdimensional traveler since he didn't seem to believe Zinnia during Episode Delta either.

 

[firepanda]

The thing is, the Beldum has Steven as the OT

Damn. There goes my plan to raise my shiny Beldum during the main story. :/

(Yes, I know trainers shouldn't have favourites, but I just can't love my Pokemon the same way if I didn't catch it myself.)

 

[Almonds]

The thing is, the Beldum has Steven as the OT

Damn. There goes my plan to raise my shiny Beldum during the main story. :/

(Yes, I know trainers shouldn't have favourites, but I just can't love my Pokemon the same way if I didn't catch it myself.)

Look on the bright side: at least raising Beldum won't be such a pain.

But yeah, I guess Steven isn't much of a interdimensional traveler then. Though I do wonder who would be the game!verse Alain in ORAS?

 

[SammyW27]

References...REFERENCES EVERYWERE! O_O

 

[The Outrage]

I think Phoebe's grandmother died due to Groudon/Kyogre.

When you first meet Maxie/Archie at Mt. Pyre, both grandparents are alive to give you the opposing orb. When I visited Mt. Pyre after defeating Kyogre, the grandmother was nowhere to be found. Post-game, we find Phoebe talking to a graveyard, and no matter what you say to her, she'll reference speaking with her grandmother. We know that even without Primal Reversion, Groudon and Kyogre's power reached the Lilycove area. As they reached deeper in the Cave of Origins, you hear from BuzzNav about the havoc the legendaries are wreaking over the Hoenn region. What if the grandmother died from this disaster?

 

[BlackButterfree]

My head canon was that it was just off in some remote corner of the world where Pokémon had evolved to become more like humans. After all, Pokémon already speak. We just don't understand them.

I wouldn't say they're that much more like humans. Pokemon are already intelligent beings, so it's not that hard to believe, really that they could run a town or something as they've shown similar behaviors in the Anime. The only thing is that they talk. Even in the Pokemon World we know, Pokemon know that they can't really talk unless through telepathy, or they're Meowth. But it is pretty much confirmed that it is a separate world they normally refer to as "The World of Pokemon" that's apart from the world with humans and Pokemon. Strangely enough, the Pokemon in that world know what humans are despite there not being any in that world.

There are humans in that world, because Grovyle in Time/Darkness/Sky tells you as the player as much. And they don't speak. The most logical conclusion is that they speak the Poké-Language, but for obvious reasons, the developers translated it into human speech

Is it confirmed exactly how much time has taken place between ORAS and XY? Because it would solve the disputes in the timeline for between DPPl/HGSS -> BW

We know RSE/FRLG -3 years-> DPPl/HGSS -? years-> BW -2 years-> BW2/XY

I usually thought that number was 2-3 years.

The TR Grunt from the Kanto Power Plant says something about leaving to another region to start up TR again. He shows up in Unova in Black and White. With a child and a wife. His child has a Preschooler sprite, giving an age of about 4-5 years. Many speculate this to be a 5 year gap and that this makes the timeline an even decade between X/Y and R/B/G/Y. (It should be mentioned, however, that by B2/W2, the TR Grunt has left with his family and in their house is a couple comprised of a Magma grunt and an Aqua grunt, presumably the same ones you meet in the Battle Resort in OR/AS.)

The existence of multiple universes and time lines does explain a few things. Like how it's possible to catch Reshiram/Zekrom despite one of them being canonically owned by the BW protagonist and the other is either still with N (If you didn't battle him post game) or with the BW2 Protagonist. In the gen 6 timeline the Plasma crisis may not have happened or happened yet. I like the idea of Sinnoh remakes expanding on the idea since time, space, opposite dimensions and creation are a big part of the game's mythology there. The existence of Arceus and Giratina in Sinnoh could lead to some interesting things there since Arceus creates universes and Giratina lives in another dimension.

It really gets me thinking the Mystery Dungeon is another one of those alternate worlds but one where humans didn't end up being the dominant species on the planet.

My head canon's always been that Hoopa took Reshiram/Zekrom after N released it in B2/W2, but before Nate/Rose caputured them. So from alternate universes, obviously (the B2 universe and the W2 universe) but still in the main timeline. (This was before Zinna and the parallel timelines completely screwed me over)

I think Phoebe's grandmother died due to Groudon/Kyogre.

When you first meet Maxie/Archie at Mt. Pyre, both grandparents are alive to give you the opposing orb. When I visited Mt. Pyre after defeating Kyogre, the grandmother was nowhere to be found. Post-game, we find Phoebe talking to a graveyard, and no matter what you say to her, she'll reference speaking with her grandmother. We know that even without Primal Reversion, Groudon and Kyogre's power reached the Lilycove area. As they reached deeper in the Cave of Origins, you hear from BuzzNav about the havoc the legendaries are wreaking over the Hoenn region. What if the grandmother died from this disaster?

That is horrible. And I did notice she was gone. I didn't meet up with Phoebe yet... That's so sad and I hope they clarify it some day. But that'll probably be as mysterious as Giovanni's suicide (which I don't believe for one second btw)

 

[Amoebo]

Johto before TR-Kanto+Johto+ORAS/ruby/sapphire - Emerald and X&Y - DPPt - x&y

 

[Esserise]

I don't get what you mean. For all intents and purposes, Origins represents "Mega FRLG" and is supposed to be contemporary with the ORAS events. If for whatever reason Game Freak choose to contradict Origins, then it simply won't be part of the game canon.

Good point, but isn't Origins already kind of contradicted by Red capturing Mewtwo at the end, and then Mewtwo somehow being in the Kalos in XY?

What if the grandmother died from this disaster?

Was it really that big of a disaster, though? I mean, I like the idea, but it seemed as though you managed to stop them before anything more than an hour or two of heavy rain/heat came about.

But that'll probably be as mysterious as Giovanni's suicide (which I don't believe for one second btw)

Giovanni never committed suicide. That was just him leaving the cave being wildly misinterpreted/read far too much into, and nothing really suggests that he's about to commit suicide either. And if he did, then Ethan and Lyra must have psyches of steel, because they don't seem bothered by it in the least.

 

[The Outrage]

@Endolise;
It's a sudden downpour of torrential rain and heat so strong it evaporates water-type moves, the former would be devastating to any island and coastal areas (which were precisely the areas affected), the latter causing dehydration and heat strokes. Within seconds of Groudon and Kyogre appearing, Magma/Aqua grunts already said that they were producing more rain and sun than expected. The BuzzNav chronicles the response of the two teams, Steven, and the Gym leaders to the disaster. Just because you could play the game as usual, doesn't mean what transpired couldn't be classified as a disaster, especially since people were caught off-guard.

I'm going to guess the old Mt. Pyre couple also assisted people given it was their duty to guard the orbs. Perhaps Phoebe's grandmother succumbed to heat stroke or caught pneumonia and didn't recover.

And unlike Giovanni's disputed event, the grandmother actually disappears when she didn't originally. What would be the purpose of that, along with Phoebe speaking with ghosts if they weren't trying to imply something?

 

[Silktree]

Good point, but isn't Origins already kind of contradicted by Red capturing Mewtwo at the end, and then Mewtwo somehow being in the Kalos in XY?

Red could have easily released Mewtwo at any point in around 10 years. He only caught it to complete the Pokédex.

Likewise, it's only a matter of time before Rayquaza shows up in a game set after ORAS. I wouldn't dismiss the Embedded Tower event just because we only know it happened in another universe.

 

[The Outrage]

I got the Gardevoirite from Wanda. She says that she found the stone outside her house after "those lights" filled the sky--she's referring to when the energy from Cave of Origin was released.

Now what's really interesting is that the legend between Cave of Origin and Mt. Pyre is that while Mt. Pyre is where Pokemon come to rest, the Cave of Origin is where those Pokemon are reborn. It was only after the energy was released that more Mega Stones started appearing in Hoenn--its clear that the energy released from the cave was what created these new Mega Stones, but perhaps the energy released by the Cave of Origin wasn't just natural energy, but also the life energy released by deceased Pokemon in Mt. Pyre.