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Organized Religion

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Ryuutakeshi said:
Okay look. I'll admit that a good amount of people have lost their way. That's their issue. They allowed themselves to go down that line. However, it is starting to sound to me like you jsut don't like a group whose methods you don't agree with. Funny how people don't seem to go with one's opinions.

See, organized religion is a good thing. In my mind. In yours, maybe not. I don't agree with other religions' traditions, but I do respect that that is what they believe. I say the pope concept is weird and you blow it into epic proportions and say the Catholic church is the reason we didn't get on the moon during the civil war. That's an extreme. If you don't like it, deal with it. They aren't going away. It's a person's faith, something that has existed since the dawn on time. It is unarguable, like morals. So complain all you want, but it gets you nowhere.
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well said.

I believe in a certain god and life philosophy, but part of my philosophy like I said is being tolerant and treating other people like I'd wanna be treated. So i mostly respect other people's beliefs no matter what they are.

And starting an 'organized religion' thread and leading with 'all organized religion is disgusting' is boarding on the edge of trolling.
 
Ryuutakeshi said:
Okay look. I'll admit that a good amount of people have lost their way. That's their issue. They allowed themselves to go down that line. However, it is starting to sound to me like you jsut don't like a group whose methods you don't agree with. Funny how people don't seem to go with one's opinions.

See, organized religion is a good thing. In my mind. In yours, maybe not. I don't agree with other religions' traditions, but I do respect that that is what they believe. I say the pope concept is weird and you blow it into epic proportions and say the Catholic church is the reason we didn't get on the moon during the civil war. That's an extreme. If you don't like it, deal with it. They aren't going away. It's a person's faith, something that has existed since the dawn on time. It is unarguable, like morals. So complain all you want, but it gets you nowhere.
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It's not a good thing the way most people practice it. I respect what they believe as long as they don't act self-righteous, discriminate, and push it down peoples' throats.

No, it's not extreme. It's a well known fact the Catholic church completely declined science and hindered its development for centuries. It has been estimated by scientists we would have been in space up to 250 years earlier.

Sadly I don't have my chart.

And no it is not trolling. Some of the things religion has done and promoted in the past years is nothing short of disgusting and beyond.
 
one person said well said. Another disagrees with me. This is life is. Religion is a part of life. If you don't like how it is, stop caring.
 
So... did you start this thread to have a discussion or a major rant?

LadyBow said:
It's not a good thing the way most people practice it. I respect what they believe as long as they don't act self-righteous, discriminate, and push it down peoples' throats.
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Frankly, the way you've been ranting in this thread puts you in the same group as the people you're criticizing. You really shouldn't judge organized religion as a whole on what you see and hear from the vocal minority.

I agree with bell02+. Well said.
 
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Bullshit!

You're ranting about a HUGE minority of extremists, and the actions of the church in the past. I'm not a Christian, but I don't think that the church is a huge focal point of evil, in fact, as you yourself said, its existance results in some great charity. Yes - the church used to be a hugely corrupt and somewhat unChristian organisation. But that was in the past! No one can change that now!

As for the "ignorant preaching", you're just taking a vast minority of nutters and classing anyone who follows a religion as such. I know a helluva lot of Christians and I haven't met a single one who is as sheep-like as how you describe them to be.

Frankly, the ignorant person here is you. Stop talking crap about something you yourself obviously know nothing about.
 
However I am not yet aware of such a church in existence, so my argument remains the same
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Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

That, quite frankly, is the epitome of ignorance.
 
Barb said:
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

That, quite frankly, is the epitome of ignorance.
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...You obviously don't get it. I acknowledged there probably are some that exist, however they obviously are not large scale organizations. All the major religions with the biggest influence spread much ignorance.

@Kanji, if you think that a church with over a billion members counts as a small group of extremists you should just leave.
 
Buddhism has the large influence in South and Southeast Asia, but you don't hear of the "ignorance" with it, why is that? Same with Shinto, Confusicianism, Taoism. They have large followers and are considered (in many circles) organized religions, they are also extremely large.
Then what about Judaism? The followers are few when compared with Chrisitanity or Islam or even Hinduism.

Organized religion isn't wrong in and of itself in my opinion. The People who run the religions can be corrupt yes, but not the religion itself. A person's religion is only as good as they intepret it. People spread ignorance, not an idea.
 
Nicoleta01 said:
Buddhism has the large influence in South and Southeast Asia, but you don't hear of the "ignorance" with it, why is that? Same with Shinto, Confusicianism, Taoism. They have large followers and are considered (in many circles) organized religions, they are also extremely large.
Then what about Judaism? The followers are few when compared with Chrisitanity or Islam or even Hinduism.

Organized religion isn't wrong in and of itself in my opinion. The People who run the religions can be corrupt yes, but not the religion itself. A person's religion is only as good as they intepret it. People spread ignorance, not an idea.
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Because those mentioned religions focus more on being spiritual instead of dictating peoples' lives and spreading their hateful agenda. I am focusing on Christianity because that has the biggest influence where I live. Religion is the catalyst through which many people spread ignorance.
 
Believe.
If you've never seen something it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We could spend our lives doubting everything but ourselves...But it's a lot more fun to go out and try to find it! Just because I haven't yet seen an organized religion I like doesn't mean I'll stop searching.
 
Zephy Changes said:
Believe.
If you've never seen something it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We could spend our lives doubting everything but ourselves...But it's a lot more fun to go out and try to find it! Just because I haven't yet seen an organized religion I like doesn't mean I'll stop searching.
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Which is why we don't need organized religion. If you ask me that's all Jesus was about...just loving God and one another...not being concerned with these ridiculous rules instituted by each seperate church. I have found my life to be much happier, positive, and spiritual without religion tying me down. I don't feel organized religion practices love in any form.

Just be a good person. I find the concept of accepting everyone for who they are more important than "sinning" and not saying designated bad words. And I mean truly accepting, I don't buy what most religions call "acceptance."
 
There's nothing inherently wrong with organized religion. The problem comes with the groups (or individuals) who take certain aspects of their beliefs to the extreme, and that's hardly something that's limited to religious groups.

The problem isn't religious groups. It's overzealous assholes who think destroying/descriminating others will somehow make the world better, never realizing that by destroying/descriminating others, they're making the world a shittier place. Al-Qaeda, those Westboro fuckers, ELF, and all of those asshole white supremcist groups (both the ones who feel it's the word of Jesus that drives them and the ones that think Christianity is a Jewish tool because Jesus was of Jewish descent), and idiots like McVeigh and Kaczynski. All, to varying degrees, feel that by taking the rights or lives of others will somehow make their world a better place. Instead of, you know, doing something CONSTRUCTIVE (which MOST sane religious organizations actually try to do...to some degree. Some could really do better, but that's another matter entirely).
 
I can definitely see where you're coming from, LadyBow. Religion has caused a lot of problems for people as GrnMarvl13 has said, and that's why I don't follow any specific religion (though I do believe in God, though not necessarily the God of Abraham or whatever. Just...God).

But, it's hardly fair to generalize every single religious person as being brainwashed or hate-fuelled, now is it? The majority of people who follow a religious path are magnanimous, caring people, who do their best to follow the teachings of their religion that instruct them to do good.

I think you'll find that most Christians are extremely capable of following the "live and let live" ideal without forcing thier beliefs on others, just as most Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and people of any other faith would. There are people who use religion as excuses for terrorism and other evil or ridiculous acts, yes, but these people only make up the minority.

Organized religion is something I'm rather indifferent towards, but the things you're saying come dangerously close to being prejudiced. If you're really against people preaching hate, then you'll stop doing the same thing.
 
I've always wondered why churches are so obsessed with accumulating money and power.

The Catholic Church has its priceless sculptures and murals. Tele-evangelists are always preaching for money for their church. Mega-churches are always looking for money to expand their congregations.

Why?

Aside from providing their preachers a good lifestyle, where is that money spent? Politics? Making the church more impressive?

To me, a good church is one hanging on the edge of insolvency because it spends most of its money to support its members and other people. No glorious edifice, no lavish lifestyle for the priests.

After all, what was it Jesus said about rich people? That they were as likely to get into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle? Churches are exempt?
 
the gadfly said:
Aside from providing their preachers a good lifestyle, where is that money spent? Politics? Making the church more impressive?
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The priests and monks that I know did not live a "lavish" or even a "good" lifestyle. I would consider it "average" for people who are being supported by a congregation. The church I grew up attending had one 3-bedroom house that the 2-3 priests assigned to our parish lived in together. It was in a similar location and had a similar upkeep to that of the house I grew up in. Certainly not the lap of luxury.

Also in the church I attended while growing up, the money went into operating costs and back into the community. The church has bills, too, and no other way to make an income. Property costs, building rent/mortgage, property upkeep, salaries for office employees, etc. My church also made public where the money went, so the congregation knew what their donations were being spent on.

Am I saying that ALL churches are like this? No. But not all churches are as greedy as some would like to think. (Edit: The church, priests, and monks I mention above are *gasp* Catholic.)
 
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Yes of course there are some churches who are money driven, but there are many more that are actually designed for people to simply gather and worship. Just because you hear about some extremists groups and churches on tv and in the media, it doesn't mean that all people who believe in organized religion are brainwashed crazies.
 
Therein lies the problem.

The public image of organized religion isn't good. If it isn't pedophile scandals, it's sex scandals involving well-known tele-evangelists. Then there are the well-known religious figures who denounce politicians and priests who deny communion to politicians. And go out of their way to make it public. These people speak for the rest of you.

I don't deny that most churches do good things. I belonged to one before I left it for personal reasons.

My point is that people believe what they see on TV. What they see are the bad parts of organized religion. I don't blame the media, but bad news sells better than good news.

So, what can the little churches serving God's children do about it?
 
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I don't get why people keep saying "extremist". Everything in this thread is referring to truly religious people. Haven't you noticed you think your own religions are jokes? When someone actually follows your religion you write them off as "extremists" and feel superior because you're just a light to moderate follower. Either you're a HUGE hypocrite or your church is wrong and holds people to ridiculous standards.

And for firmly believing in not judging anyone I can't think of a more judgmental group of people.

I just don't understand how you can feel right in following a religion when you disregard the core aspects of it and throw it all away Sunday, if you even consistently attend church.
 
I consider anyone who tries to make me accept their take on anything an extremist. I will listen to and consider what they have to say, but if I reject it and they still try to make me accept it, I would consider that extremism.
 
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