Should We Get Much Stronger E4?

[NeoKING]

How stupid of me, here I thought Elite Four should be easy for easy level grinding with EXP Share etc. and easy money grinding with Amulet Coin or Luck Incense.

Awww, that's right, it's not like GF couldn't use other means of challenging Trainers that give the player money and levels by a, PokeGear or something. That'd be dumb.

 

[GlassMan]

Hmm, if the Elite Four strengthened every couple of challenges, I'd be fine with that. Like how Wally was in Emerald, how each time you challenged him, he got a bit stronger. Or like WhatsHisFace in Platinum.

 

[Xellos-_^]

Yeah, me too. Sidney has somewhat high leveled pokemon, just they aren't very strong overall and don't know a lot different moves. I mean, Absol's only real attack is Aerial Ace. It helps against fighting and bug types, but just about any other pokemon is just fine against it. As long as you have a good fighting pokemon on your team you'll do very good.

Wow, I get really off topic easily. Anyways, I think that the E4 should not only focus on different types, but different strategies or stats. It would be cool if one used a lot of status inducing moves (kind of like Koga), one used mostly damaging moves, one used a lot of stat raising moves, and one used a lot of move combinations.

that Absol kill my Salamace with Rock Slide.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Awww, that's right, it's not like GF couldn't use other means of challenging Trainers that give the player money and levels by a, PokeGear or something. That'd be dumb.

Sorry, I can't bother myself challanging some Ace Trainers who doesn't even have five Pokémon. Though I liked how they made Socialite Reina and Gentleman Jeremy giving more money than Cynthia herself. Even then though, I am way too lazy walk 100 steps to recharge my VS. Seeker. I have not used PokéGear yet so I can't comment much on it, but as far as I know trainers you can rechallange are much more inferior compared to the amount of NPCs you rechallange via Vs. Seeker. And of course the fact you can't rechallange them anytime you want.

Rechallanging Gym Leaders is another story of course, as so far only remakes allow it. Red is much more different story.

 

[JohnnyCool708]

Honestly, I think the first time should be normal, and they shoullk keep getting stronger and stronger after that!

The problem is you cannot train your Level 65 Pokemon and make a new team against their Lv. 90s. The Lvs should cap at like 82 but have the levels randomly generated depending on your team after the rematch. To rectify the, "aimed towards children" issue, make it an optional feature.

It would be based like this:

E4 and Champion Team would vary from your levels, so if you enter with all level 65s, for example Aaron uses five Pokemon all between 62-65, with two level sixty fives, two full restores, no items besides Sitrus and Lum Berries, normal E4 AI. He will also possess a Stun Spore Hydro Pump Masquerain to dispose of rock and fire types. Bertha will use between 62-66, with four between 62-64 and Hippowdon at level 66. Along with Sand Veil Dugtrio. To get rid of Water Types, she will use Sand Veil Pure Sword Dancer Cacturne. She will also utilize an effective sandstorm team, with Hippowdon at the center and Tyrannitar on and after the first rematch. Three Full Restores, Super-Effective-Decreasing and Type Power up Items, (The third class ones) and have right above E4 AI, in between E4 and Silver Print level Frontier Brain. Flint will (first of all have more fire types) have six Pokemon, 62-65, with three Pokemon at level 65, four full restores, and first class items of the aforementioned. He will also posses a silver print AI of a Frontier Brain. Lucian will have Pokemon 63-67, with one at 67 and one at 66, and will begin utilizing natures like Sassy Stealth Rock/Explosion Bronzong and employ items like the Choice Specs for them. Hie will have five full restores and an AI at the Golden Frontier Brain Print level. Finally Cynthia will have diverse team that balances OFF of eachother, and not just a mix of roundabouts from the Generation and a Milotic. Her AI will be Above Golden Print Frontier Brain and have Pokemon from 66-70, with two at 67 one at 66 one at 68 one at 69 and a more powerful Garchomp at lv. 70. She will often switch out, have only the best items, employ strategies like Chesto Berry Rest Snorlax and Toxic Orb Substitute Breloom.

Each of the type based E4s will have one non-type Pokemon, accept for Aaron's Masquerain. Do not have time to think of one for Flint and Lucian, but they will work too. Levels will be based in the exact same ratios as described every time player level increases, and as I said the strongest Pokemon will cap at Lv. 82, with Cynthia having all 80s and a Lv. 82 Garchomp. This will all also be optional as said before, and the default would be it turned off. If GF uses something along these lines, they add new challenging aspects that will be both thrilling, difficult and an actual training excersize.

Edit: Also Aaron will Focus on Speed and increasing evasiveness. Bertha on Attack and Defense, Flint on Special Attack, Lucian on Special Defense and Special Attack, and Cynthia on everything.

 

[Enzap]

that Absol kill my Salamace with Rock Slide.

Oh, sorry. I was going by it's Ruby and Sapphire moveset. He did get a bit better in Emerald.

 

[/Zer0]

Going with what some earlier posts said, GameFreak could easily restrict the use of healing items during the challenge. This would severely increase the difficulty, maybe too much. If they restricted the items only during the match it could work out; in every generation I've played, I needed to heal my Pokemon mid-battle during my first Champion's match.

 

[VanillaThunderbolt]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

... You're fuckin' beast.

Thank you c:

And I did forget about Blue completely, as well as seperating my paragraphs. ><

My vote on the main question though is for a better E4, not necessarily stronger.

EDIT: Actually, on top of that, something I've always wanted to see is Trainers being able to level up the same way the Player does, gaining EXP when defeating the Player's Pokemon. They should still keep the original means of Trainer experience on top of this (rematches later in the game having an increase in levels), so it can make the Trainers in game more realistic.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Guys it's a video game designed for children. If a child has a hard time playing this game then it's a problem. Like I said if you want a difficult game or a challenge you are in the wrong fandom.

Also just because you find it easy doesn't mean everyone does. There are things like the Nuzlocke challenge that is actually really hard...go play around with that.

 

[VanillaThunderbolt]

Guys it's a video game designed for children. If a child has a hard time playing this game then it's a problem. Like I said if you want a difficult game or a challenge you are in the wrong fandom.

Also just because you find it easy doesn't mean everyone does. There are things like the Nuzlocke challenge that is actually really hard...go play around with that.

I just looked that up, and man does it look intense. I do agree that the main game should be intended for kids, but the "after-game" per se should be geared more towards a challenge, as it mostly has been. (Trainer/Gym Leader/E4 rematches with improved parties and move sets, new puzzles and story lines to explore, the entire Battle Frontier).

However, on a slightly off topic, I find it hard to believe the games have only aimed for kids. The entire characterization of Cyrus was pretty dark if you ask me.

 

[The Dethroned]

I say they should receive better AI rather than bloated levels. Right now all they do is get utterly destroyed, then sit around using healing crap only to get beaten down once again.

However, on a slightly off topic, I find it hard to believe the games have only aimed for kids. The entire characterization of Cyrus was pretty dark if you ask me.

Incidentally, do you understand the concept of genes?/LOL HERE'S A MASTER BALL FOR NO REASON
Cyrus was a little darker, but he's still on the Disney scale of 'evil' - walks around spouting ominous phrases but gives up when beaten fairly. Like 'oh, darn, I've been beaten, I'll get you next time!'

 

[VanillaThunderbolt]

Incidentally, do you understand the concept of genes?/LOL HERE'S A MASTER BALL FOR NO REASON
Cyrus was a little darker, but he's still on the Disney scale of 'evil' - walks around spouting ominous phrases but gives up when beaten fairly. Like 'oh, darn, I've been beaten, I'll get you next time!'

Master Ball scene was very lame, admitted. But he kind of led an entire cult of insecure people who weren't sure what to do with their lives. He took advantage of their insecurity, and used it to basically try and mess stuff up with the whole opening of the Distortion World. And hey, Disney has had some pretty dark villains.

 

[Jabberjaw]

I beat the elite 4 in HG/SS without any diffuctly or revives the first time through. It was VERY disappointing. But then again, this time was different from all the other times. I know how to EV train and IV breed and I like to do so in game, I know itd be more challenging if I didn't but I can't help myself. My Heracross SLAUGHTERED everything is sight.

HERES THE PART TO READ.

They should make the elite four ALOT DIFFERENT. Instead of having 4 persons all in little individual rooms that you go to 1 by 1 (from gen 1 all way to gen IV, all based on RBY) I think itd be more neat to do it in a Stadium atmosphere infront of a crowd of pokemon fans. Fight the elite 4 one after another in different enviroments, each more challenging then then the last... They are so hard infact(With amazing AI, EV IV Trained pokemon with incredible movesets), they allow you to heal your pokemon between members. The levels of there pokemon will fluctuate depending on the strongest pokemon in your party(Instead of being at SET levels) Then they bring out the Champion. AND YOU BATTLE. What do ya'll think about this new style? Better than 4 guys in inividual rooms?

BTW

Master Ball scene was very lame, admitted. But he kind of led an entire cult of insecure people who weren't sure what to do with their lives. He took advantage of their insecurity, and used it to basically try and mess stuff up with the whole opening of the Distortion World. And hey, Disney has had some pretty dark villains.

YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT DISNEY VILLIANS. Remember the opening scene of PIRATES OF THE CARRIBEAN 3: AT WORLD'S END? It was just people being hung one after another after another... then even children... dark.

 

[NeoKING]

Guys it's a video game designed for children. If a child has a hard time playing this game then it's a problem. Like I said if you want a difficult game or a challenge you are in the wrong fandom.

Also just because you find it easy doesn't mean everyone does. There are things like the Nuzlocke challenge that is actually really hard...go play around with that.

But just because it's for children doesn't mean it has to be on some "Dora The Explora Handheld Game Set From Hasbro!" - level of difficulty. Kingdom Hearts is for children, yet that game offers many difficult challenges for those seeking one. GF has done good so far with the powered up E4 and Battle Frontier, so I'm stoked to see what they'll have for BW. And I wanna check out this Nuzlocke Challenge since I'm hearing it's pretty boss.

EDIT: I'VE SEEN THE NUZLOCKE CHALLENGE. I AM NOT DOING THAT. That challenge is madness to the nth degree. Even Professor Oak would not acknowledge such a challenge even if it meant automatically filling out the Pokedex to the max and getting him a hot PokeWife for every Pokemon there is out there.

 

[/Zer0]

HERES THE PART TO READ.

They should make the elite four ALOT DIFFERENT. Instead of having 4 persons all in little individual rooms that you go to 1 by 1 (from gen 1 all way to gen IV, all based on RBY) I think itd be more neat to do it in a Stadium atmosphere infront of a crowd of pokemon fans. Fight the elite 4 one after another in different enviroments, each more challenging then then the last... They are so hard infact(With amazing AI, EV IV Trained pokemon with incredible movesets), they allow you to heal your pokemon between members. The levels of there pokemon will fluctuate depending on the strongest pokemon in your party(Instead of being at SET levels) Then they bring out the Champion. AND YOU BATTLE. What do ya'll think about this new style? Better than 4 guys in inividual rooms?

I think the different environments part was what popped out to me. In the anime, the League Conference (trainers v. trainers instead of the Elite 4) uses 4 stadiums: a grass, rock, ice, and water one.

With the announcement of field moves (I think that's what I heard) this could easily be implemented into the current Elite Four scheme, but have the field be permanently of that type. This could help those Elite Four members that are type based, as it would give an advantage over the usually mix-typed party of the player. For the Champion, GameFreak could simply give him/her a field that changes every turn to make it more challenging for the player.

~ ^ I agree with the bit about the Nuzlocke challenge (IT IS PURE MADNESS) and also about Kingdom Hearts. Funny, I was just listening to some KHII music (Another Side, Another Story).

 

[VanillaThunderbolt]

I think the different environments part was what popped out to me. In the anime, the League Conference (trainers v. trainers instead of the Elite 4) uses 4 stadiums: a grass, rock, ice, and water one.

With the announcement of field moves (I think that's what I heard) this could easily be implemented into the current Elite Four scheme, but have the field be permanently of that type. This could help those Elite Four members that are type based, as it would give an advantage over the usually mix-typed party of the player. For the Champion, GameFreak could simply give him/her a field that changes every turn to make it more challenging for the player.

I always wanted that same aspect, because it reminded me of the trials that Ash went through to get the Orange League badges. Trials, not battles of strength. They all had specific ups and downs.

Specifically, who remembers the Ash vs. Drake fight from the Orange League series? That had a concept very similar to this, and definitely brought out some awesome fight (Seismic Toss Counter ftw, GO DRAGONITE :3).

 

[Champion Lance]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

If they want to change things up, it'll have to be something related to the plot or stories surrounding the Elite 4 (more involvement, greater interaction, a closer relationship, and so on). Trying to alter the core formula could work to upset the game.

Yes. I've always thought that it'd be interesting to separate the E4 from the main plot entirely--it stops becoming special when each player character--each kid--defeats the E4 and the Champion as a matter of course. Instead, make it seem special: make them seem larger than life by making it a difficult thing to do, plot wise, rather than a step in the chain. Then add some actual perks and/or duties to being Champion.

There's only so much you can do in the game through battling. I find the larger story and the atmosphere much more interesting--the problem is that it's not nearly as deep (though it's getting better), so imagination largely has to substitute for that. If we didn't need to do that, it'd change things up quite a bit.

 

[Faye Scarlet]

As long as they don't blatantly hax like they do in the Battle Frontier, I don't care how strong or smart they are. ._. Cheating just to win is so ick.

BTW

YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT DISNEY VILLIANS. Remember the opening scene of PIRATES OF THE CARRIBEAN 3: AT WORLD'S END? It was just people being hung one after another after another... then even children... dark.

You know that's right. D8 And did we forget about Scar, who convinced poor little Simba that he had accidentally murdered his own father! Or Frollo, who was lusting after Esmeralda? Hell, even the Evil Stepmother was kinda scary, at least to me!

 

[NPR]

I agree with the varying levels idea. I always thought that the Pokemon League worked like that anyway.
Think about it for a second, the first gym you challenge only has two Pokemon in their low levels. Yet when you come back for a rematch the leaders have at least 5 in their 40s. I think that depending on how many badges you have, the gym leaders go easier on you.

This probably isn't the case for the Elite Four, but they could act on the same principle.
Instead of relying solely on level, the League is made so that the most skilled trainer is victorious, not the highest leveled. Yet the highest leveled are placed further back in the League.

So I think that the League should improve with you, but should have a limit on it as well. I think maybe... level 85ish for the Champion.

I don't think Red like players should have a limit though. Their highest leveled Pokemon should be based on your highest in your party. The others should be leveled down from that point accordingly.

 

[Kamikazen]

I say yes along with some strategies that the pokemon would use. I wouldn't want complete Smogon strategies, but something basic, yet, noticable. My opinion for the level range (1st member's weakest to champ's strongest) for the first time you battle the E4 would be somewhere around 51-65. For the rematch, I would prefer 63-81 or 82.