Should We Get Much Stronger E4?

[NeoKING]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

I guess someone should change the title to, "Should We Get Much More Smarter E4s", because even though strength is good, it's not as useful without the proper strategy to properly use it. So we don't need higher levels just a better AI.

Actually we can close this thread, if anyone wants, since basically "I whined about beating the E4 in SS too easily> I re-challenged them> I got my ass handed to me."

Though we can still discuss BW's E4. I want my rival as Champion again, lol.

 

[Xellos-_^]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

To me, HG/SS was bad enough. True, I always sucked at the original G/S, and I had problems on the same gym leaders I always did. The game kicked it up near the end of Kanto where Blaine can subvert your type advantage, Gary uses Trick Room, and Lance was so powerful that I couldn't beat him with L:80s. That may make me look weak, but there are people worse than me. I don't think it can get more difficult than that and kids would still be able to play it. Want a challenge? Go play the BF. It's not like beating the game is any problem for you. You can probably do it within 12 hours or less. The game was never intended to be that difficult, and the BF was made for the more experienced seeking a challenge. If not even that is a challenge for you, then I have nothing to say to you.

my Starmie beg to differ on how powerful Lance is. Ice Beam for his dragons, Surf for Charzard and Thunderbolt for Gyrados. Didn't even bother to change out once. Lance is laughable as a dragon trainer, i had more trouble with Drake of the Hoenn E4.

So long as they are not like Lance or Cynthia, I'm glad. Lance was laughingly easy, ad Cynthia was too annoying.

Make them as hard Whitney was in the origonal GSC

i love fighting Cynthia as you can just exploit a weakness and do a walkthrough. My matches with her basic slugging matches and actually felt like i could have lost. Unlike Lance and Wallace which was basically a laugh.

 

[Garren]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

I had an idea with the Gym Leaders being based upon the stats...

One focusing on high Speed Pokemon, one with high HP Pokemon, one with high Sp. Def Pokemon/Def Pokemon, one with high Sp. Atk/Atk Pokemon, and the champion using a mixed team that had a member for each stat. That seems like it would shake things up a bit more, and, yeah, improved A.I. and move sets wouldn't hurt either.

Then again, considering a lot of people like to breeze through the E4 to get to the post-game, maybe save the harder difficulty for a rematch.

 

[Inon]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

I think that they could keep the same level -range, but disable the use Items between battles, that way it would be way more of a challage, as you won't be able to use Revives, tough, a complete team refresh before facing the Champion would be neat.

 

[Xellos-_^]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

I had an idea with the Gym Leaders being based upon the stats...

One focusing on high Speed Pokemon, one with high HP Pokemon, one with high Sp. Def Pokemon/Def Pokemon, one with high Sp. Atk/Atk Pokemon, and the champion using a mixed team that had a member for each stat. That seems like it would shake things up a bit more, and, yeah, improved A.I. and move sets wouldn't hurt either.

Then again, considering a lot of people like to breeze through the E4 to get to the post-game, maybe save the harder difficulty for a rematch.

i think they should base on the total lvl of your team. So you can't just out level them.

 

[VanillaThunderbolt]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

The best challenge for any game is applying the right handicaps. Set Mode, no items, require all 7-8 HMs and field moves within a set in stone party of 6, no double typing, stuff like that. It's usually my rule for my play-throughs, and it's always a challenge when it comes to the E4. I end up trying about 10 times in a row so I can get a feel for what they do depending on different scenarios, and try to formulate the best strategy to get around them. Even when I do memorize their every move, I have to stay 3-7 levels ahead just so I can survive 5 straight battles with no HP/PP recovery. I am pretty disappointed in the AI sometimes, but what I'm severely disappointed in is how all but three of the E4 members of ALL regions and games were type based. The only exceptions were Cynthia (obviously), and Steven in R/S (who kind of mixed Rock and Steel), and Flint in D/P (who only had 2 Fire Types available at the time). Type based E4 = Fail. Strategy based trainers like the team mates in the Battle Tower like Buck and Cheryl would be a serious step up.

 

[Xellos-_^]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

also make the moves and abilities of the pokemon random. at least on the 2nd go around.

 

[NeoKING]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

The best challenge for any game is applying the right handicaps. Set Mode, no items, require all 7-8 HMs and field moves within a set in stone party of 6, no double typing, stuff like that. It's usually my rule for my play-throughs, and it's always a challenge when it comes to the E4. I end up trying about 10 times in a row so I can get a feel for what they do depending on different scenarios, and try to formulate the best strategy to get around them. Even when I do memorize their every move, I have to stay 3-7 levels ahead just so I can survive 5 straight battles with no HP/PP recovery. I am pretty disappointed in the AI sometimes, but what I'm severely disappointed in is how all but three of the E4 members of ALL regions and games were type based. The only exceptions were Cynthia (obviously), and Steven in R/S (who kind of mixed Rock and Steel), and Flint in D/P (who only had 2 Fire Types available at the time). Type based E4 = Fail. Strategy based trainers like the team mates in the Battle Tower like Buck and Cheryl would be a serious step up.

... You're fuckin' beast.

 

[GlassMan]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

The best challenge for any game is applying the right handicaps. Set Mode, no items, require all 7-8 HMs and field moves within a set in stone party of 6, no double typing, stuff like that. It's usually my rule for my play-throughs, and it's always a challenge when it comes to the E4. I end up trying about 10 times in a row so I can get a feel for what they do depending on different scenarios, and try to formulate the best strategy to get around them. Even when I do memorize their every move, I have to stay 3-7 levels ahead just so I can survive 5 straight battles with no HP/PP recovery. I am pretty disappointed in the AI sometimes, but what I'm severely disappointed in is how all but three of the E4 members of ALL regions and games were type based. The only exceptions were Cynthia (obviously), and Steven in R/S (who kind of mixed Rock and Steel), and Flint in D/P (who only had 2 Fire Types available at the time). Type based E4 = Fail. Strategy based trainers like the team mates in the Battle Tower like Buck and Cheryl would be a serious step up.

Oh my, this is awesome.

You forgot about Blue when you listed Elite Four-related peeps that didn't use one specific type.

 

[CypherFDP]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

The best challenge for any game is applying the right handicaps. Set Mode, no items, require all 7-8 HMs and field moves within a set in stone party of 6, no double typing, stuff like that. It's usually my rule for my play-throughs, and it's always a challenge when it comes to the E4. I end up trying about 10 times in a row so I can get a feel for what they do depending on different scenarios, and try to formulate the best strategy to get around them. Even when I do memorize their every move, I have to stay 3-7 levels ahead just so I can survive 5 straight battles with no HP/PP recovery. I am pretty disappointed in the AI sometimes, but what I'm severely disappointed in is how all but three of the E4 members of ALL regions and games were type based. The only exceptions were Cynthia (obviously), and Steven in R/S (who kind of mixed Rock and Steel), and Flint in D/P (who only had 2 Fire Types available at the time). Type based E4 = Fail. Strategy based trainers like the team mates in the Battle Tower like Buck and Cheryl would be a serious step up.

SEPARATE YOUR PARAGRAPHS.

But yeah, I see what you're getting at. And by the way, Blue/Green/Gary/Shigeru used mixed types.

 

[Dr. GM]

Honestly, I think the first time should be normal, and they shoullk keep getting stronger and stronger after that!

 

[Magnagarde]

Re: Should We Get Much More Stronger E4s?

i love fighting Cynthia as you can just exploit a weakness and do a walkthrough. My matches with her basic slugging matches and actually felt like i could have lost. Unlike Lance and Wallace which was basically a laugh.

You want to know what's fun? Challenging the champion with pokemon 15-20 levels lower than the champions. Hardcore, and fun!

 

[Georgie Pie]

I'd love to see the E4 with level 70/80 teams! The games are way too easy nowadays, I beat all of HG with a level 40 team... >.<

Or perhaps:

-Set-level first round
-Every time after that their team's levels are equal to your highest. But no lower than the original round.

For example:

Mr. E4 uses a level 57 Dragonite (random Pokemon) during the first round. After you beat the E4 you go back with your lv. 78 starter-evo, and Mr. E4's Dragonite is also lv. 78 (or close to it). But if you go back with a level 34 Pokemon, Mr. E4's Dragonite will stay lv. 57.

Does that make any sense?

 

[AuraSoul93]

I think they tried to, well, at least with Cynthia. Come on, perfect IVs for ALL her Pokemon? Better than other champions. And I think they could raise the levels a bit more next time & have the rematches at least at lv 80 for all the E4 & Champion. Also (not sure if this is off topic or not) to give the Frontier Brains "better" strategies, as in actually having one. I love the Battle Frontier, but giving the Frontier Brains an actual plan going into battle would make for a much more exciting one.

 

[I Started A Cult]

Beef up the E4, maybe make them better strategists.
I mean, come on, the HGSS E4 were miserable, especially compared to the GS E4.
THe DP E4, on the other hand were expert strategists. They really kept me on my toes.
They should beef up the gym leaders, too. But I digress.

 

[Xellos-_^]

On Rematch

1. Gym Leaders/E4/Champ's pokemon level should match that of the player with certain level min.

2. The pokemon are randomize each match, so the player can't tell what they facing until the match begins.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

How stupid of me, here I thought Elite Four should be easy for easy level grinding with EXP Share etc. and easy money grinding with Amulet Coin or Luck Incense.

 

[Enzap]

For me the most challenging E4 was Hoenn because the levels jumped so much from the gym leaders. It's very hard to train up in those games especially since you can't rematch trainers until Emerald.

 

[adit8888]

For me the most challenging E4 was Hoenn because the levels jumped so much from the gym leaders. It's very hard to train up in those games especially since you can't rematch trainers until Emerald.

Agreed. Though I have no trouble with Sidney, I'm always in big trouble against the others.

 

[Enzap]

Agreed. Though I have no trouble with Sidney, I'm always in big trouble against the others.

Yeah, me too. Sidney has somewhat high leveled pokemon, just they aren't very strong overall and don't know a lot different moves. I mean, Absol's only real attack is Aerial Ace. It helps against fighting and bug types, but just about any other pokemon is just fine against it. As long as you have a good fighting pokemon on your team you'll do very good.

Wow, I get really off topic easily. Anyways, I think that the E4 should not only focus on different types, but different strategies or stats. It would be cool if one used a lot of status inducing moves (kind of like Koga), one used mostly damaging moves, one used a lot of stat raising moves, and one used a lot of move combinations.