Underwater Ruins deciphered

[Kalavinka]

Is it possible that the Ruins are a tomb?

 

[Megaman]

I think the first set of numbers are directions to get somewhere. It mentions turning at specific corners.

 

[Silktree]

This is entirely my own thoughts and something that may seem radical but maybe Game Freak decided the "storyline" of the two brothers was truly a legend and the cuneiform from the temple is the actual history?

I did entertain this idea at first, but then I realized that the two stories aren't contradictory. Think of the twin heroes as the founding fathers of Isshu; does that mean that the combined entity of Reshiram and Zekrom couldn't have lived there previously? Reshiram and Zekrom did destroy Isshu when the sons of the twin heroes were at war. Even though the idea might seem a little convoluted, it is certainly feasible that said war wasn't the first time the two Dragons had changed (in this case by becoming divided) as well as transformed the entire region.

I think the first set of numbers are directions to get somewhere. It mentions turning at specific corners.

You'd think that these would be directions to get to the upper floors of the ruins, but I don't see how that is the case; the corners aren't numbered in any obvious way.

We should try to keep the discussion practical by focusing our attention on the Ancient Crown. Unlike with the other precious items, the person who offers to buy the crown actually recommends that the player keep the item and find a more noble use for it than monetary gain. Where were Game Freak going with this? After what happened with the Lock Capsule, I think it is safe to assume that the Ancient Crown will find a use in the third version, but unfortunately, it may not be worth the hype.

As I said at start, I think that this will all lead to Kyurem and its true form. Black and White focused a lot more on N than on Reshiram and Zekrom, to the point where it would be somewhat excessive if the most mysterious character in Isshu - the legendary king - turned out to be N's predecessor. I personally find the idea of Game Freak emphasizing extraordinary human abilities to be a little odd at this point in the series, so even though we're supposed to assume that the king was a person, I suspect that this is a trick.

 

[AndyPKMN]

I didn't read anything about the king having extraordinary abilities in those inscriptions. It seems to just be generic praise for his actions, with maybe a little bit of metaphor thrown in. Defeating Reshiram or Zekrom alone, while pretty impressive, wouldn't be undoable: There are plenty of stories in the real world about heroes slaying dragons with only their strength and their wits, so it's not impossible that a similar event could take place in the Pokemon World (perhaps in that rarely mentioned time before humans battled with Pokemon the way they do today).

I do agree that the third version might go into more detail about these glyphs, but I don't think Kyurem's original form was humanlike. In fact, I think Kyurem might be like what Reshiram and Zekrom were before they were split (and if a new form is revealed, it'll make this clearer).

 

[Silktree]

Defeating Reshiram or Zekrom alone, while pretty impressive, wouldn't be undoable: There are plenty of stories in the real world about heroes slaying dragons with only their strength and their wits, so it's not impossible that a similar event could take place in the Pokemon World (perhaps in that rarely mentioned time before humans battled with Pokemon the way they do today).

I can't see that. The idea of a human defeating a legendary Pokémon completely by himself is jarring given the scope of the series. Regardless of whether or not the king had special powers, why would he be superior to either Reshiram or Zekrom? Remember that Game Freak made a point of having N befriend his legendary partner as opposed to defeating it. As for the player, they obviously had to rely on their own Pokémon; that was the point of the plot.

I do agree that the third version might go into more detail about these glyphs, but I don't think Kyurem's original form was humanlike. In fact, I think Kyurem might be like what Reshiram and Zekrom were before they were split (and if a new form is revealed, it'll make this clearer).

What I'm getting at is that the king wasn't necessarily humanlike. But if your assumption is that the combined entity of Reshiram and Zekrom was a black-and-white dragon, where would Kyurem fall in that? It would be redundant if all three came from the same Pokémon.

 

[AndyPKMN]

I can't see that. The idea of a human defeating a legendary Pokémon completely by himself is jarring given the scope of the series. Regardless of whether or not the king had special powers, why would he be superior to either Reshiram or Zekrom? Remember that Game Freak made a point of having N befriend his legendary partner as opposed to defeating it. As for the player, they obviously had to rely on their own Pokémon; that was the point of the plot.

All I'm saying is that it wouldn't be inconceivable for the King to have done that on his own. Then again, who knows what it means by "on his own"? Perhaps he used Pokemon, but his people didn't include them when retelling his exploits. Perhaps he weakened it first, like Susano did with Yamata_nrochi (Yes, I know he's kind of a god himself, but you get the point). N chose to befriend his legendary partner BECAUSE he needed its power to drive humans and Pokemon apart; besides, he later tried to defeat your own legendary, bringing his story back into balance with the ancient king's. As to why his plan's didn't quite match the king's, what's written in the Underwater Ruins is a history, not a prophecy.

What I'm getting at is that the king wasn't necessarily humanlike. But if your assumption is that the combined entity of Reshiram and Zekrom was a black-and-white dragon, where would Kyurem fall in that? It would be redundant if all three came from the same Pokémon.

No, what I'm saying is that Reshiram and Zekrom were one Pokemon (Grey) which was split into two (black/white). Kyurem in this sense is just another of that original species, perhaps even spawned (from a meteor, if Kagome Town's legends are correct) as a result of the void left by the now-divided Reshiram and Zekrom.

 

[The Miniryu]

were are these ruins? i'm gettin a theory.

EDIT: Um, i think my theory just got denied. has anybody been think about the items you find there?

 

[The Outrage]

I would have expected to see some sort of discussion about the ancient text in the ruins somewhere in the English-speaking community, but apparently that sort of thing isn't very interesting. In the Japanese community, on the other hand, the text was deciphered no more than a week after the games' release. I've known about this for some time, myself.

Should have shared sooner since I've been waiting a long time for this >:

We should try to keep the discussion practical by focusing our attention on the Ancient Crown. Unlike with the other precious items, the person who offers to buy the crown actually recommends that the player keep the item and find a more noble use for it than monetary gain. Where were Game Freak going with this?Where were Game Freak going with this? After what happened with the Lock Capsule, I think it is safe to assume that the Ancient Crown will find a use in the third version, but unfortunately, it may not be worth the hype.

So are you actually unable to sell it?

 

[Eitarou]

apparentlly

for big bucks too

 

[Venator]

@Silktree The corners may be left unmarked for a reason. Maybe if someone followed the intructions, we would get to the heart of the kingdom?

Also, perhaps the third version will explain why the ruins were underwater. Or the Giant Hole. Or something.

 

[Mitchman]

Hinting at the 3rd game? Doubt they would start a war, unless of course they feel like splitting the evil team in 2, or perhaps even giving you your own good team. But if the Ancient Crown and the other items do get uses, maybe perhaps you wear the crown along side N, trying to defeat the 3rd dragon cause its too damn powerful. You know, setting aside differences for a common cause of proper good.

 

[bluesun]

@Silktree The corners may be left unmarked for a reason. Maybe if someone followed the intructions, we would get to the heart of the kingdom?

Also, perhaps the third version will explain why the ruins were underwater. Or the Giant Hole. Or something.

Well each of the messages is on a specific pillar, but the Corner ones just don't seem to connect in any way.

 

[Der_Neuevenmenschen]

I'm pretty sure that if both the Giant Hall/Hole and the Underwater Ruins are a big part of Pokemon Grey/Rainbow/Spectrum's plot, it will be the greatest Pokemon game of all time. No joke.

(excuse me if this is off-topic)

 

[Venator]

Well each of the messages is on a specific pillar, but the Corner ones just don't seem to connect in any way.

Maybe... they do? Do we have a layout of the ruins?

 

[VentusAstrum]

Maybe it is connected to the Dragon Spiral Tower? It is the oldest tower in Isshu after all.

 

[bluesun]

Maybe... they do? Do we have a layout of the ruins?

We do. They're pillars 18, 16, 21 and 20 in this map.(In order, 2nd/3rd/5th/7th. Also the pillar numbers aren't official and just the order that the person that made the image listed them in.)
I can't seem to find any way to connect them, if you can find some way to, you'll have done better than I did...

 

[Venator]

Spoiler

)[It works in img tags]

Going from each entrance, in order, we get exactly one actual turn away from the center green thing. What is the center green thing?

Also, where are the blue things representing items?

 

[bluesun]

Going from each entrance, in order, we get exactly one actual turn away from the center green thing. What is the center green thing?

Also, where are the blue things representing items?

Hm, really? Interesting... I don't know why the blue dots aren't on that map, maybe the maker didn't put them on. The green spot is where you rise to the second floor.
Since the 3/5/7 numbers are based on interpretation of '[symbol]th', I wonder if what were thought to be 5 and 7 might be 4 and 5 then... wouldn't quite match with the primes theory someone suggested though.

 

[Silktree]

Since the 3/5/7 numbers are based on interpretation of '[symbol]th', I wonder if what were thought to be 5 and 7 might be 4 and 5 then... wouldn't quite match with the primes theory someone suggested though.

It's hard to imagine that those particular symbols could be interpreted in any way other than by counting the number of lines in them. More importantly, the connection to prime numbers isn't a theory, as the text confirms it: "Primes lead to truth."

 

[ekluag]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, or if something similar has been brought up, but this is my theory.

There was a King of Isshu, who befriended the combined Zekrom+Reshiram dragon. This dragon was his friend, his partner, his guardian, whatever the case may be. This dragon was bound to the royal bloodline, bound to serve whoever the king was, and to support the new king. But as he was growing old, the King's two sons went to war over the kingdom. Maybe the crown passed to the eldest son, but the King had given it to the younger, or something. Point is, both had an equally valid claim to the throne. Their infighting tore the dragon apart, yes. But not into 2, but into 3. Reshiram and Zekrom each sided with a son, but Kyurem sided with the old King, wanting to prevent the conflict and bring peace. But the brothers were not to be pacified, and the Kingdom died in war. The 3 dragons vanished into legend. Reshiram and Zekrom waited for the heirs of the 2 princes, so that they could help them rise up to the throne again. Kyurem fled to the Giant Hole, where it waits for the conflict between the descendants of the 2 princes to rise up again, and for Reshiram and Zekrom to renew their battle. It will then try to quell the battle, bringing an end to the conflict.

So, thoughts?