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Controversial opinions

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Enzo said:
....Well... that was definitely something wasn't it?

Anyways, I don't about you but Butch's eng dub voice is AWFUL imo. Not to throw shade to the voice actor, but who thought that giving him that ''old man who smoked cigarettes for 50 years'' voice was a good idea? I'm rewatching Sinnoh in the eng dub this time, and how did you guys even put up with that?
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It didn't matter if it was Eric Stuart or James Carter Cathcart voicing him, I never thought Butch sounded right at all.
 
Not sure how controversial of an opinion that is, but YES. Butch's dub voice in both versions is AWFUL (although I think the second voice somehow managed to be even worse than the first, if that's possible). It is tragic because Butch and Cassidy have always been two of my favorite characters and most of their episodes are some of my favorites, but it's a challenge to watch them dubbed. His Japanese voice is fantastic, though.
 
Kosaburou's English voice is so awfully cartoonish it could very well fit in any slapstick comedy show there is. Since I didn't grow with this particular dub I'm not sure what my opinion would be when I was 5, but it sure doesn't fit this show's tone.

He's not the only example, other COTDs from the Kanto era were also given bad voices (Fiorella Cappucino from the Princess' Day episode for example).
 
I guess this is more of a rant than just an opinion. I’ve wanted to say this for a while, so I’m sorry if I lose it here or come across as overly harsh or ignorant. I know this’ll probably get me into hot water but honestly I don’t care at this point. Anyways here goes nothing:

I just want to preface this with saying that you’re completely free to express your own opinion and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with criticising shows, movies, games, or anything of that sort really. I’m also not trying to target any specific users here, but just in general.

Ok so I’m sick of the anime and manga section here. The majority of people just keep complaining about the show over and over again. It’s not even that, but it’s usually the same people, talking about the same thing (ie goh, screentime, series structure) on threads that aren’t even related to it. A lot of people have also left altogether to make matters worse.

It’s one thing to criticise, mock or even dislike Journeys, but it’s another thing to actively hate the show whilst still being so engaged with it. This has to be my biggest gripe. Seriously, because I’ve seen posts where people are not just frustrated - they’re tired, sick of the show, would rather wish it became anything else, or are literally waiting for it to be over. Seriously, wtf. If you genuinely can’t stand Journeys and can’t go one goddamn second without criticising it in some way, then why on Earth are you still watching it? I normally hate bringing up this argument, but for your own sake- why are you still here? You’re so invested in something you hate. Why not just talk about something you like, check out other shows, head to a different section, or do literally anything else? This isn’t like most tv shows/movies/games that you are specifically paying for to watch (or at least I hope you’re not, cause you don’t have to). It’s not even made for your demographic. So imo there’s a point where you just either take it or leave it. It’s baffling to me that someone would consistently watch a show that they have so many problems with in the first place. Yet that’s what I’ve seen on a regular basis here. I swear some people are acting like someone’s pointed a gun to their head and will pull the trigger if they ever stop watching it. This is way past the ‘so bad it’s good’ stage, the tone in most of the section here is so, depressing.

Please, I’m not saying you have to be head over heels for Journeys and worship the damn show, but maybe just take a break from it? Or at least keep your criticisms for the threads they’re designed for, rather than derailing stuff like the preview thread episode 60 (this is just one example) which honestly has nothing to do with it. Do we seriously have to criticise every little thing the show does wrong? It sounds like a broken record at this point. We get it. Goh’s goal is badly written, screentime for pokemon and characters is a mess, PWC is rushed, it’s not taking advantage of its region hopping premise. Now can we move on please, and just talk about the episodes at hand without constantly dragging this stuff into it? I’m tired of seeing the same complaints over and over again.

It hurts man. It hurts joining a community because you like a show and want to talk about it, only to see most people shooting it down every time. I like Journeys, it’s not perfect but the pros outweigh the cons for me. But it feels like every time I log onto here, all the fun and enjoyment I’m having with the show starts getting sucked out. It’s just draining to be on here at this point. Apparently things have been like this since the SM anime (or even longer). I just can’t help but wonder how this is fun, or even remotely satisfying for anyone. Cause the people posting things like ‘I’m so done with Journeys’ and ‘This whole show is about Goh now’ sure as hell don’t look like they’re having a good time. The weird thing to me is that, the reception for sword and shield is fairly positive on here (even if I’m not a massive fan of those games) but the anime is so passionately hated.

I’m just done with this section honestly. Things can be bad enough as is and I’m really annoyed that a place you’d normally use for escapism or even just having fun is so sour and a buzzkill. I think I’ll just stick to the video games section for a while. Unless it’s a farfetch’d episode obviously.
 
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Ryker101 said:
I guess this is more of a rant than just an opinion. I’ve wanted to say this for a while, so I’m sorry if I lose it here or come across as overly harsh or ignorant. I know this’ll probably get me into hot water but honestly I don’t care this point. Anyways here goes nothing:

I just want to preface this with saying that you’re completely free to express your own opinion and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with criticising shows, movies, games, or anything of that sort really. I’m also not trying to target any specific users here, but just in general.

Ok so I’m sick of the anime and manga section here. The majority of people just keep complaining about the show over and over again. It’s not even that, but it’s usually the same people, talking about the same thing (ie goh, screentime, series structure) on threads that aren’t even related to it. A lot of people have also left altogether to make matters worse.

It’s one thing to criticise, mock or even dislike Journeys, but it’s another thing to actively hate the show whilst still being so engaged with it. This has to be my biggest gripe. Seriously, because I’ve seen posts where people are not just frustrated - they’re tired, sick of the show, would rather wish it became anything else, or are
literally waiting for it to be over. Seriously, wtf. If you genuinely can’t stand Journeys and can’t go one goddamn second without criticising it in some way, then why on Earth are you still watching it? I normally hate bringing up this argument, but for your own sake- why are you still here? You’re so invested in something you hate. Why not just talk about something you like, check out other shows, head to a different section, or literally anything else? This isn’t like most tv shows/movies/games that you are specifically paying for to watch (or at least I hope you’re not, cause you don’t have to). It’s not even made for your demographic. So imo there’s a point where you just either take it or leave it. It’s baffling to me that someone would consistently watch a show that they have so many problems with in the first place. Yet that’s what I’ve seen on a regular basis here. It’s just baffling to me, I swear some people are acting like someone’s pointed a gun to their head and will pull the trigger if they ever stop watching it. This is way past the ‘so bad it’s good’ stage, the tone in most of the section here is so, depressing.

Please, I’m not saying you have to be head over heels for Journeys and worship the damn show, but maybe just take a break from it? Or at least keep your criticisms for the threads they’re designed for, rather than derailing stuff like the preview thread episode 60 (this is just one example) which honestly has nothing to do with it. Do we seriously have to criticise every little thing the show does wrong? It sounds like a broken record at this point. We get it. Goh’s goal is badly written, screentime for pokemon and characters is a mess, PWC is rushed, it’s not taking advantage of its region hopping premise. Now can we move on please, and just talk about the episodes at hand without constantly dragging this stuff into it? I’m tired of seeing the same complaints over and over again.

It hurts man. It hurts joining a community because you like a show and want to talk about it, only to see most people shooting it down every time. I like Journeys, it’s not perfect but the pros outweigh the cons for me. But it feels like every time I log onto here, all the fun and enjoyment I’m having with the show starts getting sucked out. It’s just draining to be on here at this point. Apparently things have been like this since the SM anime (or even longer). I just can’t help but wonder how this is fun, or even remotely satisfying for anyone. Cause the people posting things like ‘I’m so done with Journeys’ and ‘This whole show is about Goh now’ sure as hell don’t look like they’re having a good time. The weird thing to me is that, the reception for sword and shield is fairly positive on here (even if I’m not a massive fan of those games) but the anime is so passionately hated.

I’m just done with this section honestly. Things can be bad enough as is and I’m really annoyed that a place you’d normally use for escapism or even just having fun is so sour and a buzzkill. I think I’ll just stick to the video games section for a while. Unless it’s a farfetch’d episode obviously.
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Pretty much my sentiments exactly. I think many people have a passion for the show and are pained to see it go through such a rough patch (in their opinion), so that explains why they wouldn’t simply stop watching or take a break. Personally, it’s not my favorite series, but I do enjoy it and think that it’s far from the worst.

Sometimes, though, it just feels like the negative opinions are so prevalent that people just go along with it because it appears to be the prevailing opinion rather than coming up with their own thoughts independently. I’m sure there are plenty of people with positive feedback who are afraid to post their thoughts for fear of being met with a mountain of quoted replies arguing with them.

This isn’t to discredit those who are genuinely just sharing their criticisms of the show, but I just feel like too often it’s taken beyond criticism and things just go too far. Plus, I feel like people are just so nit-picky about the series and many also appear to have a lot of negative bias surrounding Goh.

It can get tiring, but I hope people who still enjoy the series know that there are still plenty of others who do as well and don’t get too discouraged.

And, again, I have total respect for people who point out genuine flaws in the show (it certainly ain’t perfect). It’s just that those people often seem to get lost among the throng of voices from those who aren’t being as genuine.
 
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Ryker101 said:
I guess this is more of a rant than just an opinion. I’ve wanted to say this for a while, so I’m sorry if I lose it here or come across as overly harsh or ignorant. I know this’ll probably get me into hot water but honestly I don’t care at this point. Anyways here goes nothing:

I just want to preface this with saying that you’re completely free to express your own opinion and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with criticising shows, movies, games, or anything of that sort really. I’m also not trying to target any specific users here, but just in general.

Ok so I’m sick of the anime and manga section here. The majority of people just keep complaining about the show over and over again. It’s not even that, but it’s usually the same people, talking about the same thing (ie goh, screentime, series structure) on threads that aren’t even related to it. A lot of people have also left altogether to make matters worse.

It’s one thing to criticise, mock or even dislike Journeys, but it’s another thing to actively hate the show whilst still being so engaged with it. This has to be my biggest gripe. Seriously, because I’ve seen posts where people are not just frustrated - they’re tired, sick of the show, would rather wish it became anything else, or are literally waiting for it to be over. Seriously, wtf. If you genuinely can’t stand Journeys and can’t go one goddamn second without criticising it in some way, then why on Earth are you still watching it? I normally hate bringing up this argument, but for your own sake- why are you still here? You’re so invested in something you hate. Why not just talk about something you like, check out other shows, head to a different section, or do literally anything else? This isn’t like most tv shows/movies/games that you are specifically paying for to watch (or at least I hope you’re not, cause you don’t have to). It’s not even made for your demographic. So imo there’s a point where you just either take it or leave it. It’s baffling to me that someone would consistently watch a show that they have so many problems with in the first place. Yet that’s what I’ve seen on a regular basis here. I swear some people are acting like someone’s pointed a gun to their head and will pull the trigger if they ever stop watching it. This is way past the ‘so bad it’s good’ stage, the tone in most of the section here is so, depressing.

Please, I’m not saying you have to be head over heels for Journeys and worship the damn show, but maybe just take a break from it? Or at least keep your criticisms for the threads they’re designed for, rather than derailing stuff like the preview thread episode 60 (this is just one example) which honestly has nothing to do with it. Do we seriously have to criticise every little thing the show does wrong? It sounds like a broken record at this point. We get it. Goh’s goal is badly written, screentime for pokemon and characters is a mess, PWC is rushed, it’s not taking advantage of its region hopping premise. Now can we move on please, and just talk about the episodes at hand without constantly dragging this stuff into it? I’m tired of seeing the same complaints over and over again.

It hurts man. It hurts joining a community because you like a show and want to talk about it, only to see most people shooting it down every time. I like Journeys, it’s not perfect but the pros outweigh the cons for me. But it feels like every time I log onto here, all the fun and enjoyment I’m having with the show starts getting sucked out. It’s just draining to be on here at this point. Apparently things have been like this since the SM anime (or even longer). I just can’t help but wonder how this is fun, or even remotely satisfying for anyone. Cause the people posting things like ‘I’m so done with Journeys’ and ‘This whole show is about Goh now’ sure as hell don’t look like they’re having a good time. The weird thing to me is that, the reception for sword and shield is fairly positive on here (even if I’m not a massive fan of those games) but the anime is so passionately hated.

I’m just done with this section honestly. Things can be bad enough as is and I’m really annoyed that a place you’d normally use for escapism or even just having fun is so sour and a buzzkill. I think I’ll just stick to the video games section for a while. Unless it’s a farfetch’d episode obviously.
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I think it's fair to criticize a show you care about, but a lot of the "criticism" I see being thrown around when it comes to this series in particular feels way off the mark. It's like they don't want the show to be better; what they want is for the show to fit their idea of what the show should be and that's the main issue here.
 
Here's one: I don't care who gets Grookey because the Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread ruined my need to care. In fact I don't think I care anymore who catches what (except maybe the Pontya if Koharu meets it again, but whatever). Lets be real for a second, regardless of who gets what pokemon there will probably be another World War Goh on the forums for the millionth time, and then another, and then another, and then another until this series ends.
 
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While I do understand and agree with a good portion of the common complaints about Journeys, I also definitely agree that the hate can be excessive. The Goh backlash in particular feels mind boggling to me. Not liking Goh or how his goal is understandable, but claiming that he is a villain in the making or that he is on the same level as Pokemon Hunters just does not make any sense to me. Goh isn't my favorite companion, but he's far from the worst and I do genuinely like him, so seeing fans continue to treat him as a villain is upsetting to say the least.

Even though I don't take part in the episode threads that often, I can understand how upsetting it is to see the same complaints or hate towards the series week after week. It is especially difficult if you enjoy Journeys, want to talk about how much you enjoyed an episode and don't want to deal with the same arguments over and over again. I've dealt with that for other series, so it is not a pleasant feeling.
 
I agree that its ridiculous to sit here and compare Goh to a soulless monster who doesn't care about Pokemon. He certainly does care for the Pokemon he catches when the writers actually DO show him with a Pokemon that's not Cinderace or Sobble. They aren't stuck in Pokeballs 24/7. They're living comfortably in a giant park that fits their needs. But I do think sometimes people here try to devalue or dismiss legitimate criticism about Journeys or Goh in general.
 
Add me to the list of people who think that the hate Goh gets is wholly unjustified. I do not care for Journeys in the slightest but honestly, Goh is a very, very small reason as to why. I personally don't find his goal interesting (in fact, I find it to be a bit of a snoozefest), but I think Goh, as a character, is perfectly likeable and the level of hatred he gets is insane. Of course people are allowed to dislike him, no character is ever universally liked by everyone, but I think the level of hate he gets is largely undeserved, especially when there are so many other reasons to think Journeys is a bad series.
 
I actually quite like Go and enjoy when he's on screen; I really liked the Suicune episode as a recent example, but I already conveyed my thoughts in that respective thread.

He's the first of Ash's male companions that feels like a person than a glorified human encyclopedia or the team's static, resident cook; also, his outfit is practical and akin to a player character's unlike Cilan and Clemont (that was one of my biggest annoyances for those characters). I appreciate how he Is more in touch with his feelings as a male character, as well as some of his softer facial features, and as a lead no less; I have actually been able to relate to several of his aspects, such as difficulties in making friends and awkward social encounters (I was howling during the Alola visit, because it was so darn relatable). He's quirky, moody, insightful, tactical, compassionate, knowledgeable, and is constantly growing as a person and Trainer. And can we talk about his growth for a bit? Earlier, he was rightfully condemned for his attitude and actions towards Scorbunny and its Ember (yet was able to make amends). When something similar rolled around with Sobble, did he retread those steps? Nope - he instead worked with his Pokémon to acknowledge its desire and find a battle style that accentuates its strengths, leading to a new move learned as well. It is that progress and growth from when he started to where he is now that makes me fond of him (and again, we rarely get this with male characters that are not Ash). It also helps that his Starter is one of my favorite Starters/Starter-lines as well (tied with Rowlett); I adore seeing Cinderace animated on screen, especially when the quality is quite good. There are other things I like, but I'll digress for now.

As for his goal, it still isn't something I condone. Or rather, I do not appreciate how the writers have portrayed it, all of the instant captures with ease; I think that is my biggest gripe, with the way they treat most of Go's captures being such a departure from practically everything prior to Journeys. But it is what it is and it is not something I am going to join in an already thunderous chorus about, unless it is something quite egregious in my own opinion. Some of the comments I read regarding this, or him in general, are too much or black and white; either you hate him or are stupidly labeled a "fanboy." Even more upsetting than shifting through them is the fact that there are users that feel they cannot post in the section without being harassed for their opinion.
 
Enzo said:
Anyways, I don't about you but Butch's eng dub voice is AWFUL imo. Not to throw shade to the voice actor, but who thought that giving him that ''old man who smoked cigarettes for 50 years'' voice was a good idea? I'm rewatching Sinnoh in the eng dub this time, and how did you guys even put up with that?
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RetroPokeFan said:
It didn't matter if it was Eric Stuart or James Carter Cathcart voicing him, I never thought Butch sounded right at all.
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ii kanji said:
It was such a shock to me hearing Kosanji’s voice for the very first time, because he actually sounds kinda... sexy? Agree that B*tch is awful.
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Insanish Danish said:
Not sure how controversial of an opinion that is, but YES. Butch's dub voice in both versions is AWFUL (although I think the second voice somehow managed to be even worse than the first, if that's possible). It is tragic because Butch and Cassidy have always been two of my favorite characters and most of their episodes are some of my favorites, but it's a challenge to watch them dubbed. His Japanese voice is fantastic, though.
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GalacticRonpa said:
Kosaburou's English voice is so awfully cartoonish it could very well fit in any slapstick comedy show there is.
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nickdt said:
You can say they Botch (Ed) its voice.
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Actually, Eric Stuart did that voice because, in test recordings, his initial attempts at doing a voice for Butch sounded too much like James, so he went with a complete opposite kind of voice compared to James. Apparently, it didn't even hurt his throat to speak like that, either.
 
FinnishPokéFan92 said:
Actually, Eric Stuart did that voice because, in test recordings, his initial attempts at doing a voice for Butch sounded too much like James, so he went with a complete opposite kind of voice compared to James. Apparently, it didn't even hurt his throat to speak like that, either.
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Why didn't they just... use another actor?
 
ii kanji said:
Why didn't they just... use another actor?
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My question exactly xD I've never got this thing about the English dub of using the same guy to voice countless characters. It's fine if they're skilled enough to change their voice and put on a good interpretation, but it's so not the case with Kosaburou here xD

Why not hire another VA then? Or use someone else?
 
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A Wild Luxray said:
But I do think sometimes people here try to devalue or dismiss legitimate criticism about Journeys or Goh in general.
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This. This may even be off-topic in a sense but I gotta say it. And I might even get in trouble for this, but yeah:

Listen, I also don't agree with being too harsh with this character and some people do take it too far with their nonsense. I even think sometimes that I take things a bit too far, and I do regret it and I'm policing myself to not do that anymore. But I also get the lingering sensation that quite a lot of people really like to take advantage of the more ''out of control'' (for lack of a better expression) folks to use them do completely dismiss and devalue any criticisms about Journeys. I'm not targeting anyone here, if any of you may be thinking about this now. And of course it's okay to like the series and even feel defensive about it.

But at the same time, I often go through the AniPoke tag on Instagram, Twitter, other Pokémon Forums, and I do see a lot of people with the same complains I see here. And not just specific accounts: you just need to click in the comments, subtweets and other posts of completely unrelated people in completely different spaces and they have their critiques too. Even in other languages. So it's not a ''herd effect'' in this website.

I think that what I'm trying to say here, is that people are allowed to praise, love, critic and even just complain about something. No one's opinions are better or worse than others, and they don't (and can't!) devalue each other. But when I say ''criticism'' I say ''valid, coherent, grounded, lucid criticism''. Not comparing Goh to the likes of a Pokémon hunter like the ones in the Suicune ep or even Hunter J.
 
prog rocker said:
Money maybe? I know that the LA dub used different artists for both James and Buck so I don't know what they were doing there.
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So does the Japanese version!

I'm unaware how 4kids would choose who'd voice who in the 90s, but I'm certain they had someone else (preferrably one who didn't sound like a slapstick cartoon character) that would be better for this role.

Because, let's face it, Butch sounds nothing alike with Kosaburou (if that wasn't obvious already).
 
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