Controversial opinions

[HiroHunter]

This is a bizarre take. Every saga after Johto has experimented with something new. Johto for the most part aside from doing more proper Gym battles was the only saga that didn't experiment much. You sound like you're 20 years late with this argument. AG was the most experimental saga at the time it debuted.

AG at the time had the most changes at that point of the series and everything it did was an experiment. Bringing in a secondary female lead and taking the focus away from Ash with her own quests like Contests was completely unheard of at the time. Back then nobody believed giving a companion their own quest would work.

Or not giving Ash all the starters and dividing them up among the cast. Or having Ash's Pokémon mostly evolve for the first time. Or having a little kid on the cast and a group of 4. Or Ash leaving all his pokemon behind but Pikachu. Or Misty leaving. Or Ash and Brock having new clothes. Etc.

Saying the show shouldn't experiment when every saga after Johto has tried something new or changed something considerably from the previous is strange. If the show never experimented every saga would be exactly like Johto and Misty/Brock would still be here to this day. I think you get the point.

I think they meant experimenting on the level of JN.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I don't think being experimental is the problem either. Every series has tried out new ideas and concepts for the characters, setting, etc. The anime wasn't exactly the same until SM came around. SM and Journeys are arguably more experimental than some of the other series or provided bigger changes to the anime's format to make them stand out more, but the anime has always been experimental.

I can understand being upset or disappointed with how Journeys has turned out. Being experimental or trying a bunch of new ideas definitely isn't guaranteed to make a good series. BW was also pretty distinct and it's still my least favorite Pokemon series. Asking for the anime to stop experimenting doesn't really sound like a good solution either. I doubt that's going to make the anime more engaging for fans or better received if they just stop trying new ideas. The ideas not working out or not being received well are the natural risks that come with experimenting with a series. The best you can do is hope for the series to ideally improve over time or that the next series turns out better.

Besides all that, it's also important to keep in mind that how we feel about the anime is obviously going to be subjective. Plenty of people like BW and Journeys just as they are. They certainly aren't wrong for enjoying either series or not agreeing with a lot of the common complaints that they both have.

 

[Enzo]

I also don't think they should stop trying to do new things tbh.

I feel that this is another problem of JN on a conceptual level:
1) The writers are just plain bad at their jobs;
2) Then they decided to juggle way too many new balls to the point where it went haywire and basically each and every ball came crashing down and hit them in their heads.

(i.e of the last point: PWC, past references, events and characters, Goh's entire thing, promoting 8 regions and 1000+ Pokémon, etc.)

Again: trying new things is not the problem, the issue is thinking that the idea being new and innovative is automatically gonna make it be excelent, especially with a bad writing team behind it.

 

[Insanish Danish]

I agree that experimenting with new things isn't the problem here. I honestly love what they're TRYING to do with Journeys; I just don't love the execution.

 

[Soniman]

No kid is going to know who the hell Dawn is.

I...a remake of her games literally just came out...and sold really well....and her look a like is going to be in Arceus which comes out in3 weeks....

Also isn't this "they should stop experimental if they can't pull it off" the most paradoxical sounding thing to anyone else? Literally the entire point of a experiment is to test hypothesis and see what the results are, that's the whole point of taking a risk and the people doing so don't have the benefit of hindsight to know whether a risk paid off or not. So telling them to not try anything is silly.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

DP Ash is a better, stronger, and smarter trainer than XY Ash. DP Ash preformed way better at the Sinnoh League than XY Ash at the Kalos League. DP Ash is smart enough to use reserves. The only thing stopping him were literal legendaries.
Ash’s battle against Alain in the Kalos League Finals was one of his worst league performances.

 

[HiroHunter]

DP Ash is a better, stronger, and smarter trainer than XY Ash. DP Ash preformed way better at the Sinnoh League than XY Ash at the Kalos League. DP Ash is smart enough to use reserves. The only thing stopping him were literal legendaries.
Ash’s battle against Alain in the Kalos League Finals was one of his worst league performances.

Ok your overhating XY Ash a bit too much here.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Actually, speaking of target audience, who the hell is all the returning companion promotion for? Why is any of that in Journeys in the first place? No kid is going to know who the hell Dawn is. Or Iris for that matter. All they know about Iris, for instance, is that she is the champion and Ash knows her. The episode treats her growth like its something the audience should care about but they don't even know who she is.

The additional attention from older fans, and social media clout and trending on places like Twitter. Notice how little we actually get of Dawn as a character in these episodes. These are just legendary episodes with Dawn thrown into them for attention.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I agree. They need to go back to the usual format of Ash (or a new trainer) going through the region and competing in the league. I still question why they chose to go with this direction for Gen 8 of all of things when Galar has the most competitive league out of any region. It would have been perfect for a badge run.

I think if they're going to do that now, it would have to be with someone new (Ash and Serena's kid, please!!!!) because Ash hasn't been in a gym battle now for over 5 years and I don't think he's ever going to be competing for gym badges again. Also, since he won in the Alola League (not my favorite league, but a league nonetheless) and became a champion, I really don't see him competing in a league ever again, either. (I still wish the first league win had been at the Kalos League instead.)

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

The guy says that his favorite series is XY, so I feel like he has some sort of valid reason? I have no idea--I didn't watch too much DP as a kid

Actually, I believe she's a girl, and I understand her frustrations-I felt them too. (Still do.) I think she really did love the XY series, as did I, the problem being they royally screwed up at the end. I don't think she's forgiven the writers for that, and I don't blame her.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

They say that their favorite series is XY, so I feel like they have some sort of valid reason? I have no idea--I didn't watch too much DP as a kid

XY Ash is one of my favorite Pokemon characters too and he has better character and emotional development than DP Ash though I love both. Listen, there was a time when I used to think XY Ash was the strongest.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

XY Ash is one of my favorite Pokemon characters too and he has better character and emotional development than DP Ash though I love both. Listen, there was a time when I used to think XY Ash was the strongest.

I hear ya, the XY team looked set to win it all-until the writers gave us long-time fans the middle finger and said, "nope." I'm assuming you're also a long-time follower of the anime? I've been watching pretty consistently since Battle Frontier, basically since Pokemon started airing on Cartoon Network. Like for example, I used the watch t he re-runs of Master Quest on Miguzi when that was on Cartoon Network in like I think 2003-2004.

 

[HiroHunter]

XY Ash is one of my favorite Pokemon characters too and he has better character and emotional development than DP Ash though I love both. Listen, there was a time when I used to think XY Ash was the strongest.

I feel bad for XY Ash he started off strong and was looking like he was going to go all the way. And then before he reached the end the writers or the higher ups said no and tripped him up.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I feel bad for XY Ash he started off strong and was looking like he was going to go all the way. And then before he reached the end the writers or the higher ups said no and tripped him up.

And I still hate them for that. I've heard others say this, but Kalos should have been Ash's year.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I agree.

I'm a child of late-Cartoon Network Pokémon. I remember that I may have watched the last episode of DP (although that may have been a memory I made up as a young kid), and I loved Unova. I watched XYZ religiously, I remember watching his battle against Olympia and what happened after, his Alain battle, his fight with Serena, all of it. XYZ was and still is what I love in Pokémon heh. (xyz appreciation thread when)

Oh, I'm sorry if I confused you. When I asked about the long-time follower of the anime thing, I was actually addressing cricketlaxwolvesbandy. That said, I actually rembered from viewing your profile that you're a teenager, so your post does not surprise me. I'm 26, and have been following the anime since my elementary school days, so I guess that makes me a child of early-Cartoon Network Pokemon. I'm glad you liked the BW series though. For us older fans who had watched the original series, it did not particularly strike the right chords, so to speak. I also watched the XYZ series religiously, I think I only skipped one episode, "A Gaggle of Gadget Greatness!" I just.....couldn't with that one.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

(Dragon Ball Z was probably the biggest offender, as the show's fights were infamously like 90% characters bragging about how strong they were and powering up to their next form while everyone stood completely still gawking in horror, and 10% actual fighting)

So pretty much the Goku vs Frieza fight,Kai version did trim a lot of the fat down to make the series go by faster.Also I'd have to say that fight was at it's peak when Goku was a Super Saiyan and Frieza was at 100% full power,better than Gohan vs Cell.

True, but to be fair, that kind of feat is pretty par for the course for the regional aces in general (Infernape would go on to do the exact same thing, for instance), so that was less glorification of a single species and more just standard ace protagonism. Not to mention, that was Ash's Charizard, who is literally the only Charizard who actually earned his power through hard work and sweat and tears and even had to be humbled quite a few times. Other Charizards could still be canon fodder: in the Johto saga one was defeated by Ash's Totodile (a basic stage mon who was also Ash's weakest Johto starter by a noticeable margin), and later in Hoenn another one lost to Ash's Glalie (a Pokemon with a type disadvantage), so the species in general wasn't portrayed as inherently demigodlike.

Now flash-forward to the end of Gen 5 and we have Origins straight up hitting every other Pokemon with the Nerf Stick to glitter up Red's Charizard, then Alain's Charizard's "training" consisted of it curbstomping every other Mega in existence because anything that isn't the perfect Mega Charizard X is just pathetic worthless riff-raff, and now we have Leon as the strongest trainer in the world who has literally never lost a single battle with his ace being a Charizard, meaning that the strongest Pokemon in the world is, you guessed it, a Charizard.

I feel bad for Ash's Charizard, honestly. Like, what even was the point of him having to go through all that crap to become as good as he is now if apparently every other Charizard now is OP just by virtue of being Charizards?

Ash's Charizard is the one I like and respect the most,it went through it's character development in OS and multiple times was used as a last resort to bail Ash out of the toughest situations.I'd say from OS-SM it was Ash's strongest base pokemon,it didn't rely on abilities or items.All of it's battles it won OS/Johto-on were because of it's training at Charicific Valley.I always wondered how strong Alain's Charizard was without the use of Mega Evolution.

 

[ii kanji]

I think I only skipped one episode, "A Gaggle of Gadget Greatness!" I just.....couldn't with that one.

I remember people feeling this way at the time cuz of league hype, but can I just say that in its own right this was a really good and hilarious episode. If you love XY and miss all the characters you should definitely fill this gap in.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I think if they're going to do that now, it would have to be with someone new (Ash and Serena's kid, please!!!!) because Ash hasn't been in a gym battle now for over 5 years and I don't think he's ever going to be competing for gym badges again. Also, since he won in the Alola League (not my favorite league, but a league nonetheless) and became a champion, I really don't see him competing in a league ever again, either. (I still wish the first league win had been at the Kalos League instead.)

Well, they can always come up with an excuse. Galar had the perfect one: the trainers here are so strong that the gym leaders alone are champion level, and you cannot complete without proving your worth. Hell, getting a sponsorship could be an arc all in itself with the Galar authorities scoffing at a league with people having one Pokémon going upto the top 16. (Maybe a gag reel of random trainers showing off their ineptitude at the Alola league playing in the background).

It isn’t as if JN is exploring Ash's status as a champion. The Alola league has been forgotten already, so it shouldn't be used as an excuse to block future storylines. Specially since there’s a pretty glaring fact that the target audience hasn’t seen a gym badge quest that’s new. I think Gen 9 would to back to the gym quest as a "fresh start" to avoid the messy logistics of the PWC outcome, even if it won’t make much sense out of universe.

Because that pretty much remains the only way Ash should be a protagonist without turning him into a side character. If Ash defeats Leon or places very high on the championship, I can easily see the writing team ignore all of it for the next saga if they want to keep Ash around.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I remember people feeling this way at the time cuz of league hype, but can I just say that in its own right this was a really good and hilarious episode. If you love XY and miss all the characters you should definitely fill this gap in.

Well, I took your advice and watched the whole episode on Pokeflix, start to finish, a rarity for me these days. And I gotta say......wow. I forgot how much I missed the Kalos gang. (Sniff....Come back to us Serena) What I didn't miss was Chespin. I just....never really cared for it much. Its juvenile antics, gluttony, and pettiness reminded me way too much of Oshawott, who I despised. That said, Clermont was at his best in this episode, was good to see him in his element. (Although that weird gag with useless machine at the beginning of the episode with the berries and then Team Rocket's machine at the end those were uhhhh....something else. Super funny though how Serena even basically said the machine was useless.) I also liked the TR trio here. (And really, a trio, since Wobbuffet was completely absent.) They were funny to watch and James was like a parallel to Clemont since they both took pride in the inventiveness of gadgetry....or whatever. I think the other reason besides the upcoming Kalos League that I never had much interest in this episode when it first aired is because of my own lack of creativity and inventiveness and pretty much total disinterest in machines. It's the reason I don't like Steel types very much. (That and defensive playstyle....blech!) Also, I heard a rumor back around the time this episode originally aired that it was supposed to be some sort of tie-in with Volcanion and the Mechanical Marvel, since they came out around the same time. Makes sense. All in all, a decent episode. Not XY's best by any means, but XY's average to decent episodes are still leaps and bounds better than what we're getting nowadays. 7/10.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

Well, they can always come up with an excuse. Galar had the perfect one: the trainers here are so strong that the gym leaders alone are champion level, and you cannot complete without proving your worth. Hell, getting a sponsorship could be an arc all in itself with the Galar authorities scoffing at a league with people having one Pokémon going upto the top 16. (Maybe a gag reel of random trainers showing off their ineptitude at the Alola league playing in the background).

I think you meant to say the Galar Gym Leaders are Elite Four level. Anyway, yeah.......except poor Galar realllly got the short end of the 'ol stick didn't it? This is Journey's third year now, and most Galar Pokemon still haven't even debuted yet. I mean, we're just getting Marnie and Piers now, in 2022. SwSh came out in 2019.