• Hey Trainers! Be sure to check out Corsola Beach, our newest section on the forums, in partnership with our friends at Corsola Cove! At the Beach, you can discuss the competitive side of the games, post your favorite Pokemon memes, and connect with other Pokemon creators!
  • Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.

Controversial opinions

While I acknowledge that he didn’t fully look into the games’ story, it sounds to me like you didn’t even bother to read the rest of it, which is actually pretty insightful, if I may say so. Before you disavow it and sarcastically call it “wonderful,” I recommend reading it to the end.

I actually did read the rest of the article. I just decided not to talk about it since I spent most of the day cooped up in university, it was late and I was starting to get really tired, so I decided to get some sleep instead of spending more time talking about the other problems I have with the article.

I chose to focus on his misconception of Lusamine's motivation in the games (or, more accurately, his misconception that there is no motivation behind Lusamine's actions), since he brings that up for a good portion of his article (especially when comparing her to the anime's version of her). Now, as is said in my response, I agree that the games' writers could have done a better job by integrating an explanation for Lusamine's behavior into the main story (as well as maybe foreshadow her redemption a little). That I won't argue. But here's the thing: Kaito never makes this point. Instead he talks about how the writers trying to make us feel empathetic towards her is terrible because there's no reason for us to feel that way because we're not given anything about her besides being crazy. Every time he compares game Lusamine to anime Lusamine, he makes sure to remind you that the anime version is better because the anime offers a better explanation for her actions, unlike the games, where (according to him) there's no justification beyond her being crazy. He even takes to official, canon explanation of Lusamine's character, motives and actions and brushes it off as nothing more than an unsatisfactory fan theory. I get it: he love the anime's interpretation of Lusamine and he wants to convince other that it's good. But to ignore some important details for the sake of making anime Lusamine look like she's better written than her game counterpart is just stupid. And this is something that could have easily been rectified by either reading some of the articles on Bulbapedia or just doing a quick Google search of the "why is lusamine crazy" phrase.

He even has a segment explaining why Lillie confronting Lusamine in the Ultra Deep Sea during the Aether arc's climax is so powerful and amazing and whatnot. Yet, all of the things he brings up about that scene can be made about the games' climax. One could say that these scenes are powerful and amazing because they show us that Lillie, the child that lived with Lusamine for longer than Gladion and has been subject to her grief and madness for longer than him, is finally strong enough, brave enough to confront her. Explaining exactly why and how she’s negatively impacted her life. Chastising her mother for treating her and Nebby as nothing more than possessions that she can do whatever she pleases with. One could even go as far as to say that this, as well as the player and Nebby's more direct actions and the intensity of the defeat she has suffered are what led to Lusamine "waking up" and realizing what she's been doing was awful and that her child, Lillie, is beautiful because of the way she is and no the way she wants her to be (also, Fun Fact: during this scene, Lusamine brings up the fact that when she was little, Lillie used to adore her mother, hinting at the fact that she wasn't always crazy and was, at one point, a loving mother that Lillie looked up to).

There's also the fact that he has moments where he compliments the dynamic between Lusamine and Lillie, but most of that dynamic (namely Lillie's animosity toward her mother) is made in order to mimic the one from games. Which actually hurt Lillie's character and makes her look like an egotistical twerp that acts like everything owned by her mother belongs to her (including her Pokémon) and that she's the center of attention. I'm not going to talk more about this, since I'm saving most of it for a review of the entire Sun & Moon series that I'm planning, but there are a lot of problems when it comes to the Aether arc.

In short, something that really grinds my gears about Kaito's article is the fact that he seems to be ignoring some of the flaws within the anime's adaptation of the games' plot and that he can't be bothered to do a small amount of research about games Lusamine's motivation (which, at bare minimum, takes the form of a 10 seconds Google search of the "why is lusamine crazy" phrase, which leads to a surprisingly detailed reddit post explaining why the games Lusamine is the most tragic character in the games).
More opinions regarding Pokémon Adventures characterizations.

Today I think I'll talk about Emma. In Pokémon X and Y, Emma was controlled by Xerosic and his Expansion Suit to do criminal deeds as Essentia. The same happens in the manga, although with more important roles. She attacks the Tower of Mastery, kidnaps Professor Sycamore, steals Y's Xerneas, captures Zygarde, and uses Zygarde to battle against the main protagonists. But once her helmet shatters and her identity is revealed, she drops a bombshell: she was aware of her actions all the while wearing the suit.

What? What?! You're meaning to tell me that this kid, as much of a street-raised child as she may be, was perfectly fine with hurting innocent people, stealing their possessions, and assisting a group of obviously evil people, just as long as she can wear a suit that makes her feel strong and safe and she gets paid so she can pay back to the man who took her in despite her being able to pay him when he did so?! Sorry, but no! This just makes Emma look way too stupid IMO!

Why couldn't she have just been unaware of her actions just like in the games? That wouldn't have changed pretty much nothing at all, since after X gives her a big speech, she does realize the error of her ways and turns against Lysandre. Why couldn't she just have been under mind control, be freed from it, find out what she's been doing while being controlled, and that way realize the error of her ways? Sure, they may have made the thing more dramatic by making it the way they did, but at what cost? By making Emma look like a naive idiot.

I think Kusaka sometimes makes stuff dark and edgy just for the sake of it.

I always preferred the nice Lusamine from the anime and the Ultra games to the evil Lusamine from SM and the manga, anyway...

Lusamine in SM felt shallow to me, too obsessed with beauty.
Pulsaro, if you don't like the SM anime. Don't watch it, leave the rest of us alone... because you are quite aggressive!
Yes, I don't like SM as much as the rest of you. Unfortunately, there is no other Pokémon series running at the moment and I've already seen the ones before it (with the exception of the pre-DP ones, but I don't feel like watching those), so, as much as I dislike it, I have no they choice but to watch SM if I want to watch a new Pokémon anime series. And, besides, it has surprised me in a positive way before, so I'm also sticking with it in the hope that it will do so again.

Also, you clearly haven't seen aggressiveness in your life if you think that that was me being aggressive. Trust me, you (and, most likely, the entire forum) would hate me even more if I was actually aggressive in my posts.
If you've never seen them before the old seasons still hold up, bar the battles being weaker compared to DP/XY and the characters generally get stagnant in Johto and everyone but May and to a lesser extent Ash in Hoenn, but there's still plenty of great eps in the first decade of the show. It's why the anime was so popular to begin with.
Okay, guys! General reminder to be respectful toward other people and their opinions, and to keep conversations civil and friendly.

People should feel free to express their opinions about the anime and its elements -- more so in this thread about unpopular opinions -- without being targeted just because they have unpopular opposite opinions compared to your own and/or because they express praise and criticism toward something that you may like or dislike. This doesn't apply only to SM, it applies to any other series or saga.

Thanks for your attention, and carry on.
After thinking on it, I think im a firm believer that the TRio aren't nearly as incompetent as the anime likes to make them. Think about it, they may have failed multiple times but despite that they've always manage to steal a high number of Pokemon. Most of the times its literally hundreds at a time. The problem? They stick around to gloat and mock the gang instead of running. And when they DO make the decision to run, they always land somewhere nearby to celebrate and give the gang enough time to find them. Instead of, you know, traveling miles and miles away to make sure no one can follow them.

And if its not that then its general plot armor/bs/trickery. Anyone who watches the series can see that when its just the TRio and whatever Pokemon they've personally capture are in the balloon when it pops, it goes off flying into the heavens. But when a stolen Pokemon is in there it either falls onto the ground where it is or it crashes nearby, giving everyone the time to chase them down. If these three ever stopped sticking around to gloat, Ash and Co. would be in a lot of trouble.
Lol! You should hear a big stink I have with the SM Manga and what it did to Lillie!

This one had potential and was robbed. The instant Guzma revealed the second Cosmog that... CAME out of nowhere. Lillie's steal Nebby and run gig had contributed to nothing.

Speaking of nothing, this Lillie had virtually no growth as of now despite that one outburst at the abandoned thrift store, implicating that there was going to be. She barely interacts with anyone outside of Gladion, Kukui, Burnet and the Dex holders and didn't really help Gladion during their trip to Poni Island. (Unlike the anime.)

Then comes the next big insult. Despite how this one carried Nebby, she didn't get to blow the flute, the Dex Holders did. Taking an important role she had from the games and giving it to someone else, to add it more insult to injury, they time skipped for half a year and it felt like it might have been a month because NOTHING happened besides Faba taking over and Lusamine derping with the UB's... that didn't do anything else besides wreck Ula'ula and derp at Poni Island.

Now we are heading the climax, Lusamine is heading to Ultra Megaopolis to get Necrozma. Nebby is at that city with the Dex holders and Gladion (Who had an out of nowhere injury for that long... just to get him out of that confrontation.) and Lillie are NOWHERE near Poni or that big right. Both kids, probably getting robbed of that climax without resulting to more ass pulls.

If Kasuka goes the route I feared.... then everything regarding the Aether Family conflict would JUST not be there despite the hype that was leading to this. Gladion and Lillie had some interaction, but they never had interaction with Lusamine outside of background and in Lillie's case a flash back. Everything regarding THEIR drama is given to the Dex Holders to resolve, despite how the it being Lillie's story was what made that plot good in SM.

USUM: took the focus on that drama away and weakened the main story because of that. HOWEVER, Lillie still had the same growth as in SM, if only rearranged for after Mina's Trial and during the Post Game. "Her goodbye to Nebby and her becoming a trainer." So it is to me a trade off that made up for the weakened main story... a MUCH better sense of closure to her.

The Anime: Altered that Story in many ways, but kept the spirit of it intact and dare I say, did it better than what the vanilla games have done.

The Manga: Took nearly everything away from Lillie and her story. Leaving us with what is just an inferior version of both games.

The worse part of all of that is that people trash at USUM and the Anime for making changes to the plot.... but not only give the Manga a pass for doing these spoilers in what is to me MUCH worse but PRAISING IT!
Now isn't that messed up.

We are having the Mother Beast in the Manga and the Dex Holder's have to deal with this. Them! Not the Aether Siblings, despite Lusamine being THEIR issue! I'm... not sorry, but this can't be excused anymore. This Lusamine was completely wasted despite all the build up. She is never on screen outside of a flash back. We have people say stuff about her... BUT we never see her do things until the end... we have NO interactions between her and her children..... now the duo that is fighting her is... the Dex Holders and not Gladion or Lillie.

The anime did this MUCH better and in the anime, Lusamine isn't even evil.
The newest round is out and translated, and you are indeed right.

Lillie has been completely cut off from the conflict revolving around her and her mother. Nebby has more connection with Sun and Moon than Lillie, and Lusamine had transformed into the Mother Beast with Lillie being around at all. Truly sad. Sometimes Kusaka likes making the Dex holders a bit too special. He's stealing Lillie of her character development here. He seems to only see Lillie as a victim of Lusamine's obsessive behavior and not the one who should be there to take a stand against her, instead giving that role to the two main characters of the chapter just because they are the main characters.
I must've missed that part. So, we're allowed to change opinions and present our own opinions on others'opinions, but not say "I absolutely think you're wrong"?

I mean, someone being told ‘I think you’re wrong [for liking BW Ash]’ definitely wasn’t the spirit of this thread, that I’m pretty sure of.

This thread by definition will attract opinions most people do not agree with. That’s pretty much the meaning behind controversial.

I think this is bordering on too pedantic though.
I mean, someone being told ‘I think you’re wrong [for liking BW Ash]’ definitely wasn’t the spirit of this thread, that I’m pretty sure of.

This thread by definition will attract opinions most people do not agree with. That’s pretty much the meaning behind controversial.

I think this is bordering on too pedantic though.
Sorry. Let's just say that I strongly disagree with that opinion.
XY Ash is my least favorite Ash actually. He bored the hell out of me. Everyone loves to rag on BW Ash for being a terrible battler but at least he had personality. I guess I just never cared that BW was bad in terms of battles because I care about the characters and their personalities first and foremost. The battles for me are kind of an afterthought.
XY Ash is my least favorite Ash actually. He bored the hell out of me. Everyone loves to rag on BW Ash for being a terrible battler but at least he had personality. I guess I just never cared that BW was bad in terms of battles because I care about the characters and their personalities first and foremost. The battles for me are kind of an afterthought.
It wasn't just the battles the BW was lackluster with. Many potential story elements were left unused or incomplete, and I personally didn't enjoy Team Rocket getting overly serious and unamusing.
Top Bottom