My beef on Shadow Pokemon

[kokiri]

IMO, the concept of Shadow Pokemon, purification, and snagging is annoying. The process is rather cumbersome, and it makes every battle take forever. I'm sort of a retro-Pokemon player (the series is old enough now), and I prefer the conventional catching method. Y'know, tall grass, caves, bodies of water... that's the way to do it. Wild Pokemon are better than Shadow Pokemon.

Why were Shadows even developed? Here's what I think: There was some kind of problem with having random battles in a 3-dimensional game. Like it's too time-consuming (and therefore costly) to program. When I think about it, I can't say that I've EVER played a 3-D game with true random battles. I know that random battles (in Pokemon, at least) relies on the entire map being a grid. Certain squares on the grid, when stepped on, will trigger battles. The triggers change location after each battle. However, in console games (turn based strategy excluded), there is no grid. So, random battles (in this system) become impossible to have.

So the the choices are either to devise a new random battle system, or to make the games grid-based. I'd settle for either, I just want my wild Pokemon back.

 

[Geodude]

IMO, the concept of Shadow Pokemon, purification, and snagging is annoying. The process is rather cumbersome, and it makes every battle take forever.

You've obviously never played Pokemon XD.

 

[Pieomon]

Give Pokemon XD Shadows a try. They introduced the Purification Chamber which makes Purification much much faster, as well as added a lot of varity and usefullness for shadow pokemon. I carry around 2 shadows myself until they're all caught. (In Colosseum, I only used non-shadow pokemon).

 

[pkmn Trainer Zach]

XD is awsome. I've been playing that more than Emerald, lately. At first, the concept of Shadow Pokémon seemed vauge, like a random attempt to make Pokémon look "cooler". In XD, it really reveals a lot more about Shadow Pokémon, and it makes them much more fun to catch. I also like the wild Pokémon you can encounter, which makes me wonder why you posted the fact that they were having trouble with making a 3D game with them. Maybe you just haven't played XD.

However, I do see your point. In Colosseum, Shadow Pokémon capturing/purifying was quite a bit more annoying. And who want's annoying when you can catch Pokémon the old-fashioned way.

 

[FabuVinny]

Certain squares on the grid, when stepped on, will trigger battles. The triggers change location after each battle.

Are you sure? You can trigger a random battle by just revolving in one spot.

 

[Kater]

i personally like XD much better than Collosium. 1. you get Lugia
2. Shadow Pokemon are easier to purify
3. Shadow Pokemon are easier to catch (they don't kill themselves in battle any more)
4. Very tough challenges
5. Pokespots(using pokesnacks you place it there and then when a pokemon comes to eat it you battle that pokemon.

 

[Pieomon]

Pokespots were cool but it was a bit too annoying still to catch wild pokemon there, nor was there a varity to catch (9 total, 3 common 3 uncommon and 3 rare, the 3 rare you can trade for better pokemon like a Shuckle with Subsitute). It would of been nice to simply wonder around in a "grass patch" and randomly fight a pokemon.

 

[PDL]

Shadow pokemon were invented by Cipher because they're too dumb to figure out how to use stradgey well

therefore, they made a new pokemon "type" that can beat all others. However, it's at the cost of the individual pokemon's heart, mind and soul and other stuff.

 

[Pieomon]

Interesting enough, shadow pokemon were their own weakness, using shadow pokemon against your opponent's shadow pokemon (in XD) made their pokemon much easier to catch as you happen to have a Snag'em Machine.

 

[Æsahættr]

does anyone else wonder why they couldn't just make uber-strong moves? like those on the shadow pokemon but on normal ones.

 

[Pieomon]

Trading compatability reasons I'd guess. If you mean "Moves that pokemon normaly can't learn" XD has them in spades, passing around Refresh like popcorn and giving a few pokemon Heal Bell (Poochinea, Ampharos), which are tradable. If you mean like giving say, a normal pokemon a made-up move for XD then the game would have to keep you from trading it away like it does keep you from trading shadows away.

 

[damion]

I can understand

But i found my togapi with Tri-attack? You could trade it for an electikid
But i really like XD much much better because the graphics do seem to be twiked a bit (now that they pulled the cam back a bit)
I have to say the shadow idea is a nice twist i mean being an old school pokemon trainer myself i do miss "hunting" for your own pokemon but we need a small change every now and than i just hope that the next console version is a lot lot long (more of the rpg):thumbup:

 

[Orion-Sama]

I liked the Shadow Pokémon concept, for one simple thing: it forced you to pass time with your Pokémon. Something that's impossible in the games. Unless you choose a Pokémon to use in the game quest or unless you go with one you'll train for a serious Team, it's very rare to dedicate enough time to all other Pokémon. Most of the time, they're just evolved for Pokédex fodder, and dumped in a Box for the rest of their days...

Yes. It might be tedious, but I think it was a good thing. I got to know many Pokémon I completely ignored in the handheld games, because they made me use them through the game. Else, the game wouldn't be "completed". In addition, they added several late-on Pokémon that could be caught almost at the beginning, such as Teddiursa or Houndour. In the handhelds, you won't bother with them unless you like them or if you want to fill the Pokédex.

Plus, it's also a nice feeling. As one that puts a bit of soul in my hobbies, I felt I had to help those Pokémon. Tainted by evilness, they had forgotten what is to love, or to feel. It was nice to pass time with them and help them overcome the darkness.

But well... I bet most would rather breeze through the game than dedicate a bit of time to those Pokés they ignore due to the handheld's awkwardness...

 

[Pieomon]

Good point, I felt the 3D games had more soul, especialy with the custom description for your starter Pokemon "[name]'s old friend" for the training memo entry, or however it was worded. Made me never want to always keep them on the team. (too bad my love for Dewgong made me dump my Vaporeon that I got in XD once).

Being 3D also made it easier to "give it a soul" as you said.

 

[Kauri]

I liked the Shadow Pokémon concept, for one simple thing: it forced you to pass time with your Pokémon.

... marry me? XD;

You put into words exactly what made me really like Pokemon Colosseum. It was especially nice in Colo rather than XD, as most of the capturable Pokemon hailed from the GSC era - and, really, didn't a lot of Johto Pokemon get overshadowed by the returning Kanto ones, in those games?

I know I didn't bother with Slugma, Houndour, or even Cyndaquil because I knew I could get a Growlithe instead. I ignored almost all of the new water-type Pokemon in favour of Slowpoke. Most of my final Gold version party consisted of old Pokemon from the RBY days, rather than any of the new species. They gave us variety, but I chose to stick with what I knew.

But you couldn't do that in Colosseum. What you got was all you had - I know I've developed a new appreciation for some of the GSC Pokemon I'd completely ignored previously. Things like Mantine, Stantler, Ursaring... even Dunsparce and Remoraid were interesting to use, because - as you said - the only other time I'd bothered to even look at one of them was for the sake of filling up the Pokedex.

In Pokemon XD, though... It's nice that they modified purification, however it also ruined the whole "discovery" aspect. "Oh, I don't really want to try using a Nuzleaf - I'll just stick it in the Purification Chamber", rather than "Oh, I'll have to battle with Nuzleaf to heal it, because there's no other option". That was a bit of a shame...

 

[Pieomon]

In Pokemon XD, though... It's nice that they modified purification, however it also ruined the whole "discovery" aspect. "Oh, I don't really want to try using a Nuzleaf - I'll just stick it in the Purification Chamber", rather than "Oh, I'll have to battle with Nuzleaf to heal it, because there's no other option". That was a bit of a shame...

In Colosseum, for me it was "Stick with the first 7 pokemon I could purify before my hair turned while and ignore the rest". I got to know those 7 very well though (Skiploom!), so it was nice to have a new team.
To purify the others though I put 6 shadows at a time and 1 in the daycare and ran in circles while watching TV. Took less time then actualy fighting with them which I did once.
XD I used more pokes, and used Shadow ones at that as they assist in capturing other shadows quite nicely.

 

[Kauri]

Ah?

I guess it's just a matter of different play styles, then. I didn't have the patience to use everyone in XD, because there were just so darn many Shadowmon this time around, and a lot of them were pretty lacking (ha ha Ledyba). But, I didn't find it too tedious to purify the 40-something that were in Colosseum via battling.

I do agree that it's really helpful to have at least a pair of Shadowmon with you at all times, though, to catch others! I could never have gotten through the final area otherwise (since I like to catch them as they appear, rather than waiting 'til later). ;^^

 

[Avalon]

IMO, the concept of Shadow Pokemon, purification, and snagging is annoying. The process is rather cumbersome, and it makes every battle take forever. I'm sort of a retro-Pokemon player (the series is old enough now), and I prefer the conventional catching method. Y'know, tall grass, caves, bodies of water... that's the way to do it. Wild Pokemon are better than Shadow Pokemon.

Why were Shadows even developed? Here's what I think: There was some kind of problem with having random battles in a 3-dimensional game. Like it's too time-consuming (and therefore costly) to program. When I think about it, I can't say that I've EVER played a 3-D game with true random battles. I know that random battles (in Pokemon, at least) relies on the entire map being a grid. Certain squares on the grid, when stepped on, will trigger battles. The triggers change location after each battle. However, in console games (turn based strategy excluded), there is no grid. So, random battles (in this system) become impossible to have.

So the the choices are either to devise a new random battle system, or to make the games grid-based. I'd settle for either, I just want my wild Pokemon back.

I can't speak for everyone, but usually in 2D game design with random battles, there're two types of battle... starting... techniques. First is entirely random, and the second is where you walk so many spaces and get into a battle. It doesn't need a grid, and if you use one of those ideas you can do the same for 3D... for example, move so far and it'll go into a battle scene. The problem is that in 3D games this really is annoying, so I doubt they'd do it.

Personally, I found the wild-pokémon-catching thing (Edit: I mean in XD, where you have to use bait... forgot to mention that) much more annoying. Nothing else about the game's systems really bother me, (besides the fact that there's no day-night system) but... that's just me.

...

I agree with Orion, by the way, that the whole concept of spending time with all your pokémon is a nice touch. And the purification chamber did sort of ruin that, but I still use it anyway because I'm lame.

And odd as it seems, I try to treat my pokémon as if they were real, so I do feel some of the need to help them...