Pokémon Remake Discussion (Read First Post!)

[Wiley Willy]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

I'm REALLY trying not to be rude either, but do you know what the definition of "double-posting" is?
Anyway, the remakes could easily be made to not have the same timeline as RSE. The games could still manage a different timeline without changing too much and making it a sequel.

Wow thank you for pointing out the obvious fact that I double posted. I did it for a reason so you don't have to be a jerk about it. If it'll make you ever so happy I will combine the posts.
The poster said something that bothered me. It just so happens that I had posted my comment to him about it after I posted my comment that was directly issuing the thread.

It bothered me simply because a remake is a retelling of a story that has the exact same plot and situation of events. If it does not it is not a remake.
It could be a prequel or a sequel, but not a remake if it was in a different timeline.
If you made a remake in a different timeline you would have all the issues of inconsistent story development. Especially when dealing with legends.
If they were caught in the past then how would the original games have caught them in the present? If the remake instead takes place in the future, then how did the Legends get freed from the first game? It just doesn't make any sense at all. Also don't say, "Well a lot of things Game Freak does, doesn't makes sense." Sure GF does some weird things for their games, but breaking an entire consistent storyline is way off the deep end. I don't think I'd ever be able to touch another one of their video games if they broke a freaking timeline.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Suddenly a huge amount of anger came from the fans. Many asked, "Hey Game Freak, how do we move our pokemon from RBY and GSC, to RS?" Game Freak had no solution and many fans were incredibly angered by this situation. All those awesome level 100 pokemon that the fans had worked so hard on had gone to waste. In RS it was realized that it was near impossible to get Kanto/Johto pokemon and so it became an issue that was never solved.

Later Game Freak had a plan. A Kanto remake so that all the fans could get their hands on the original game once more and would be allowed to move them across to RS and later Emerald as well. The fans were pleased with LG FR and once more able to have access to their once beloved Kanto Pokemon again.

Game Freak then moved with Nintendo onto the DS. GF had learned from their previous mistake and while creating DPPt, they built a program that was capable of taking the pokemon from RSE and FRLG this was exactly what the fans wanted. To cross generations of their old pokemon into the new games so that their hard work was not wasted.

However, although the Kanto issue was solved, the missing Johto pokemon had not been fixed. They then made HG and SS to solve this problem. With these two games created, Game Freak had cleaned up their original mess, and now all the generations were now connected.

Even with BW, all the pokemon from gen 4 may be moved over, with the idea that you may also move over your gen 3 pokemon that had been placed in gen 4 first. The issue that angered fans about gen 1 and 2 had now basically disappeared.

So all in all with this story, what does this tell us about a RSE remake?

Well if you guys don't see it, it tells me that an RSE remake is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.

The reason? The Gen 1 and 2 remakes were used to solve a mistake that Game Freak had made in the past when the original Game Boy to Game Boy Advanced transitions occurred.
RSE never had that mistake as Gen 4 was able to transition the pokemon just fine with their cross gen program.
Now see, I'm not saying that a RSE remake will never happen, I'm just saying it's not needed (from GF's point of view). However, you never know, there's always the promise of grabbing a few dollars more with the creation of a remake.

Then, HGSS were completely unnecessary. All Johto Pokémon were available prior to HeartGold & SoulSilver's release, whether it was by Safari Zone, Wild, Branch Evolution, Breeding, Poké Radar, Swarm, or Event. Even Celebi, who as far as I'm aware, was available in Japan during Generation III, so it was possible to obtain by Trade.

Obviously, your argument is false. If Gamefreak believed that what justifies remakes is Pokémon availability, then they wouldn't have made HGSS, as all the Pokémon from Generation II, all 100 of them, were available.

Thus, making the fact that all Generation III Pokémon are available insignificant when it comes to remakes, from Gamefreak's point of view.

I'm REALLY trying not to be rude... but... do you know what the definition of "Remake" is...?

I was talking about where Ruby & Sapphire fall in the timeline (Alongside FRLG, after, or before?), since it seems to be an unsettled matter, and people assume that it matters when it comes to remakes. I wasn't talking about the events that will be in the remakes and if they will occur after the originals, but when the original events occurred. I hope that made it clear.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Sure, it will miss Ruby/Sapphire's 10th anniversary, but let's be honest - do Nintendo and GameFreak actually care so much about the 10th anniversary of a game in the middle of a series?

Actually, I think both past remakes have been in or near the year of the game's 10th anniversary. (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Guys, remember, can we please remember that the discussion of the validity of remakes is a no-no, and that for the purposes of this thread, let's all act like that we know they're going to happen, okay?

Actually, I think both past remakes have been in or near the year of the game's 10th anniversary. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Red and Green came out in Japan in 1996 (Then as Red and Blue in America in 1998, Europe in 1999) - FRLG was released worldwide in 2004.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

I just hope that they remake Hoenn for the 3DS in all of the system's glory, I think Hoenn would look GREAT for the 3DS, but the DS would be OK as well.

 

[Purim]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

(GameFreak are a second party developer, not a first =3)

Personally, I don't expect RS3DS until at least 2014. I imagine we'll get Grey in 2012, Gen VI primary pair in 2013 and RS3DS in 2014/5. Sure, it will miss Ruby/Sapphire's 10th anniversary, but let's be honest - do Nintendo and GameFreak actually care so much about the 10th anniversary of a game in the middle of a series? They only blow out the anniversary trumpets for the first games in their franchises. After all, in Japan, FRLG were released 8 years after Red and Green (6 years in America, 5 in Europe); not 10 years. I'm more inclined to believe that HGSS falling on GS' 10th anniversary year was just coincidence.

You really think Generation V will only last about three years? That's not even enough time to get out all the event Pokémon in time for the new games (going by Japan's distributions, 2011: Victini, 2012: Keldeo, 2013: Meloetta, 2014: Genesect). Because of this, I'm almost 100% sure that Generation 5 will last until 2015, or at least late 2014. HGSS falling on the 10th Anniversary of Gold/Silver may have not been the plan, initially, but (as far as I can remember) it featured pretty prominently in the promotion of the games in Japan. (IE, lots of commercials all pimped how the game had updated in the past ten years). I'm inclined to believe that they realized it would finish development around this time and planned their marketing around it. If PRHS is done around the time for RS's 10th anniversary, why not include it in the marketing?

 

[Georgie Pie]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Why is the idea of GF putting in effort considered so ridiculous?

Blergh, late 'cause I was asleep... and then I had to go to class...

Anywho, it's just that remakes make a decent chunk of money for GF, without them really needing to come up with characters or plot lines from scratch. They just tweak what they already wrote, and reformat it for the new system. I didn't say that the idea of them putting effort into something was "ridiculous", it's just that remakes are a relatively easy way for GF to make money. There's a saying that goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and I don't think GF would risk losing out on the cash cow that RSE remakes would be by taking the risk with "changing things up" by doing a sequel instead. GF took a lot of risks making BW so different, and even though the games were received quite well, they might not want to take risks again so soon. Remakes would be guaranteed to make money, sequels are not so certain. Especially since a big point in remakes is providing the game to a group of gamers that missed out on the first release. At this point, a sequel would make absolutely no sense to a lot of the younger kids who play Pokemon, since they weren't around when RSE first came out. Since said kids are the main target audience for these games, as much as the older fans wish it were us, GF is more likely to cater to the group that never played the original games, rather than the group that was around when they came out. If we were to get a sequel right this minute, I'd say there'd be a better chance for a sequel to DPPt, or even BW, since those games are still "current" enough for a sequel to be relevant. I'm not one to say things are impossible, it's just that, even though I would love to have a sequel, a remake makes so much more sense for GF to do right now.

tl;dr I really have no clue what I'm rambling about at this point. Feel free to ignore me.

 

[Kyuuketsuki]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Guys, remember, can we please remember that the discussion of the validity of remakes is a no-no, and that for the purposes of this thread, let's all act like that we know they're going to happen, okay?

Sorry about that... It's because after someone speculated on the possibility a while back, I checked the first post and it no longer says "do not discuss the possibility of remakes", so I thought it was open again.

I just hope that they remake Hoenn for the 3DS in all of the system's glory, I think Hoenn would look GREAT for the 3DS, but the DS would be OK as well.

I would like to see Hoenn on the 3DS, even though I don't own one yet. If the 3D is done well, then I think it would look fantastic!

On a slightly related note, I want to see the Wi-Fi Plaza in Hoenn, and in 3D.

Then comes the best of Sinnoh; The Distortion World in 3D!

 

[Purim]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Why is the idea of GF putting in effort considered so ridiculous?

It's not. That effort is why HeartGold/SoulSilver was so well received, I think. They polished the game up an extraordinary amount, added in feature upon feature, and worked to make it a joy, not just for the new players who never saw Johto before, but for those of us old curmudgeons who visited Johto in the past.

But they focused on improving the areas Gold/Silver/Crystal lacked instead of needlessly changing things for the sake of change. There's a Safari Zone, Kanto is no longer barren of features, Story actually feels better and more rounded than it did in GSC (especially Silver's story, considering the Celebi Event, the Tag Battle against Lance and Clair, and the little things like him trying to go and give his Starter back to Elm).

Contrast to FireRed/LeafGreen, which, on top of lacking some of Ruby/Sapphire's features, didn't really add anything new or exciting to replace them. FRLG felt lazy, but HGSS felt like a love letter to the fans, young and old both.

If GameFreak is going to put a lot of effort into these remakes, I'd rather them do it HGSS-style and not worry about the story overmuch. I want a polished, excellent Hoenn stuffed to the brim with extras and features.

 

[Purim]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Why is the idea of GF putting in effort considered so ridiculous?

It's not. That effort is why HeartGold/SoulSilver was so well received, I think. They polished the game up an extraordinary amount, added in feature upon feature, and worked to make it a joy, not just for the new players who never saw Johto before, but for those of us old curmudgeons who visited Johto in the past.

But they focused on improving the areas Gold/Silver/Crystal lacked instead of needlessly changing things for the sake of change. There's a Safari Zone, Kanto is no longer barren of features, Story actually feels better and more rounded than it did in GSC (especially Silver's story, considering the Celebi Event, the Tag Battle against Lance and Clair, and the little things like him trying to go and give his Starter back to Elm).

Contrast to FireRed/LeafGreen, which, on top of lacking some of Ruby/Sapphire's features, didn't really add anything new or exciting to replace them. FRLG felt lazy, but HGSS felt like a love letter to the fans, young and old both.

If GameFreak is going to put a lot of effort into these remakes, I'd rather them do it HGSS-style and not worry about the story overmuch. I want a polished, excellent Hoenn stuffed to the brim with extras and features.

 

[Oswin]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

If GameFreak is going to put a lot of effort into these remakes, I'd rather them do it HGSS-style and not worry about the story overmuch. I want a polished, excellent Hoenn stuffed to the brim with extras and features.

Agreed.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

You really think Generation V will only last about three years? That's not even enough time to get out all the event Pokémon in time for the new games (going by Japan's distributions, 2011: Victini, 2012: Keldeo, 2013: Meloetta, 2014: Genesect). Because of this, I'm almost 100% sure that Generation 5 will last until 2015, or at least late 2014. HGSS falling on the 10th Anniversary of Gold/Silver may have not been the plan, initially, but (as far as I can remember) it featured pretty prominently in the promotion of the games in Japan. (IE, lots of commercials all pimped how the game had updated in the past ten years). I'm inclined to believe that they realized it would finish development around this time and planned their marketing around it. If PRHS is done around the time for RS's 10th anniversary, why not include it in the marketing?

It is odd how 2011 has so far gone by without Keldeo; however, that doesn't mean that we can't still see Keldeo in early 2012, and Meloetta in late 2012. We could easily see:

Late 2011/Early 2012 - Keldeo.
Late 2012 - Meloetta.
Early 2013 - Genesect.
Late 2013 - Gen VI.
2014 - RS3DS.

After all, with the Kami trio being in the anime rather than a movie, that only leaves the Muskedeers and Kyurem to be in the movies; so we could either see something like:
2012: Keldeo and Kyurem (with Cobalion, Terrakion and Virizion having minor roles like the beasts in the Zoroark movie - Kyurem being there for Grey promotion).
2013: Meloetta and Genesect.
2014: Generation VI Pokémon + Gemeration III Pokémon.

After all, they'd use the movies to promote the latest games, and advertising two regions of Pokémon at once (such as a new Pokémon, as well as a legendary from another old one) would be a bit much. With Movie 8, we had Mew, who was representing Kanto, and Lucario, who was used to help hype up the then-unreleased Diamond and Pearl; then we had Movie 9, which purely focused on Manaphy to promote an event in Ranger, and in turn, the recently released Diamond and Pearl. Movie 13, the HGSS promotion movie had Celebi and the beasts for Johto, but was also showing off Zorua and Zoroark from the then-unreleased Black and White.

With the 2013 movie, having two mythical Pokémon wouldn't be much of a problem. Distribute a Meloetta in Late 2012; then for pre-order tickets for the movie, give out one that knows a special move.

That would then leave early 2014 for RS3DS promotion.

 

[Purim]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

It is odd how 2011 has so far gone by without Keldeo; however, that doesn't mean that we can't still see Keldeo in early 2012, and Meloetta in late 2012. We could easily see:

Late 2011/Early 2012 - Keldeo.
Late 2012 - Meloetta.
Early 2013 - Genesect.
Late 2013 - Gen VI.
2014 - RS3DS.

After all, with the Kami trio being in the anime rather than a movie, that only leaves the Muskedeers and Kyurem to be in the movies; so we could either see something like:
2012: Keldeo and Kyurem (with Cobalion, Terrakion and Virizion having minor roles like the beasts in the Zoroark movie - Kyurem being there for Grey promotion).
2013: Meloetta and Genesect.
2014: Generation VI Pokémon + Gemeration III Pokémon.

After all, they'd use the movies to promote the latest games, and advertising two regions of Pokémon at once (such as a new Pokémon, as well as a legendary from another old one) would be a bit much. With Movie 8, we had Mew, who was representing Kanto, and Lucario, who was used to help hype up the then-unreleased Diamond and Pearl; then we had Movie 9, which purely focused on Manaphy to promote an event in Ranger, and in turn, the recently released Diamond and Pearl. Movie 13, the HGSS promotion movie had Celebi and the beasts for Johto, but was also showing off Zorua and Zoroark from the then-unreleased Black and White.

With the 2013 movie, having two mythical Pokémon wouldn't be much of a problem. Distribute a Meloetta in Late 2012; then for pre-order tickets for the movie, give out one that knows a special move.

That would then leave early 2014 for RS3DS promotion.

Both AG Movies you mentioned (Lucario and Manaphy) predated the release of Diamond and Pearl (in Japan, at least, and as long as we're talking about this sort of thing, Japan's the only region that matters).

Also, Movie 11 advertised both the upcoming Platinum Version as well as Shaymin. Movie 12 had lots of Johto Pokémon (Starters, SEP) to advertise the future HeartGold/SoulSilver versions.

But look at the pattern. Have they ever revealed more than one event Pokémon in a movie? They revealed Mew in the first movie, no one special in the second and third, Celebi in the Fourth, Latias and Latios in the Fifth (which is as close as it gets to two seperate Pokémon, but they're not event-exclusive), Jirachi in the Sixth, Deoxys in the Seventh, Lucario (not an event) in the Eighth, Manaphy in the Ninth, Darkrai in the 10th, Shaymin in the 11th, Arceus in the 12, Zoroark (and Zorua, it's evolutionary relative) in the 13, and Victini in the 14th.

While they have shown off multiple 'new' Pokémon in the movies (Donphan, Snubble, Hoothoot, Elekid, Azurill, Wailmer, Wynaut, Duskull, Munchlax, Weavile, Bonsly, Mime Jr.) none of them are event exclusive, like the stars tend to be. They've never shown off two event Pokémon in the same movie before. Why would they start now?

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Both AG Movies you mentioned (Lucario and Manaphy) predated the release of Diamond and Pearl (in Japan, at least, and as long as we're talking about this sort of thing, Japan's the only region that matters).

I didn't mistake the Manaphy movie's DVD release date for the cinema date xD. Thing is though, both were set in the Kanto region, with the Battle Frontier arc being used for Emerald promotion as well. B

Movie 12 had lots of Johto Pokémon (Starters, SEP) to advertise the future HeartGold/SoulSilver versions.

Movie 12 used the starters and stuff to obviously hype Johto; and when the Zoroark movie came around, HGSS were still the latest games out.

But look at the pattern. Have they ever revealed more than one event Pokémon in a movie? They revealed Mew in the first movie, no one special in the second and third, Celebi in the Fourth, Latias and Latios in the Fifth (which is as close as it gets to two seperate Pokémon, but they're not event-exclusive), Jirachi in the Sixth, Deoxys in the Seventh, Lucario (not an event) in the Eighth, Manaphy in the Ninth, Darkrai in the 10th, Shaymin in the 11th, Arceus in the 12, Zoroark (and Zorua, it's evolutionary relative) in the 13, and Victini in the 14th.

While they have shown off multiple 'new' Pokémon in the movies (Donphan, Snubble, Hoothoot, Elekid, Azurill, Wailmer, Wynaut, Duskull, Munchlax, Weavile, Bonsly, Mime Jr.) none of them are event exclusive, like the stars tend to be. They've never shown off two event Pokémon in the same movie before. Why would they start now?

They never released two generations on the same system, but they started now =3.

Besides, they wouldn't really be 'revealing' two Pokémon for the movie if they reveal Meloetta late next year and give it out beforehand. I'm not sure why they chose to have Victini and the dragons alone in Movie 14, but I was at first expecting Victini and Keldeo to co-star, as we'd known about Victini for almost a year before the movie's release; whereas normally, we only find out about the event legendaries 6 months before.

 

[Blue1225]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

It's not. That effort is why HeartGold/SoulSilver was so well received, I think. They polished the game up an extraordinary amount, added in feature upon feature, and worked to make it a joy, not just for the new players who never saw Johto before, but for those of us old curmudgeons who visited Johto in the past.

But they focused on improving the areas Gold/Silver/Crystal lacked instead of needlessly changing things for the sake of change. There's a Safari Zone, Kanto is no longer barren of features, Story actually feels better and more rounded than it did in GSC (especially Silver's story, considering the Celebi Event, the Tag Battle against Lance and Clair, and the little things like him trying to go and give his Starter back to Elm).

Contrast to FireRed/LeafGreen, which, on top of lacking some of Ruby/Sapphire's features, didn't really add anything new or exciting to replace them. FRLG felt lazy, but HGSS felt like a love letter to the fans, young and old both.

If GameFreak is going to put a lot of effort into these remakes, I'd rather them do it HGSS-style and not worry about the story overmuch. I want a polished, excellent Hoenn stuffed to the brim with extras and features.

Agree on all counts. FireRed and LeafGreen didn't add much.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Why is the idea of GF putting in effort considered so ridiculous?

Maybe it has something to do with these comments

Masuda: Yes, I kept thinking about it for roughly two years. But when we were making the Pokémon Diamond and Pokémon Pearl Version games, we didn't have to think too hard in order to establish a difference with previous games, because we had the DS as new hardware.

Outright stating they rely on "being on a different system" as a means of creating a differential experience. It really shows with DP too--it felt like a GBA game which got ported onto the DS midway through, thus the excess touch screen gimmicks that didn't really do anything (like half the Poketch aps) rather than what they eventually did with HgSs and made a good interface for the menu (kind of strange it took them two games to do it; shows a lack of effort unless effort is required on their part)

Masuda: Right. So we started by changing our basic approach.

Iwata: You began with the question of how you could—for lack of a better way of putting it—break down everyone's image of what Pokémon games should be like on Nintendo DS.

Masuda: Yeah. Working on the series for so long, our mindset had become fixed. Trading Pokémon by going to a Pokémon Center had become a matter of course. We needed to break down those fixed conceptions at first.

Yes, you heard it, their idea of breaking our fixed conceptions of Pokemon was to let us trade outside of a Pokemon centre ._.

As if that wasn't done in in-game trades. Rather than acknowledging that using the Pokemon Centres for trading had just been a relic from the past that somehow kept popping up (why there was no option to just trade from the start menu is beyond me) and they finally decided to get rid of it, they decide to rebrand it as "breaking down fixed conceptions"

Though, I will give them that they do seem to put effort in other aspects of the franchise such as the monster designs.

 

[Space Opera]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

FRLG had the whole Ruby/Sapphire subplot in the Sevii Islands.

Which has nothing to do with the Hoenn region or its timeline at all - it's just about getting to trade with them by finding a Ruby and a Sapphire. Big deal?

 

[Blazaking]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

Which has nothing to do with the Hoenn region or its timeline at all - it's just about getting to trade with them by finding a Ruby and a Sapphire. Big deal?

The reason it is assumed that R/S/E take place in roughly the same time as FR/LG is because in G/S/C, in order to trade with the Gen I games, you had to use the time machine thing since it was in the past. Since you don't have to do anything like that to trade between R/S/E and FR/LG, it assumed that's because they are in the same time.

 

[Space Opera]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

The reason it is assumed that R/S/E take place in roughly the same time as FR/LG is because in G/S/C, in order to trade with the Gen I games, you had to use the time machine thing since it was in the past. Since you don't have to do anything like that to trade between R/S/E and FR/LG, it assumed that's because they are in the same time.

I don't understand where people are getting the idea that remakes of R/S would alter the timeline of the original RSE games. Could you explain this to me? I'm not really understanding anything at all today.

 

[Frugrow]

Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

It is odd how 2011 has so far gone by without Keldeo; however, that doesn't mean that we can't still see Keldeo in early 2012, and Meloetta in late 2012. We could easily see:

Late 2011/Early 2012 - Keldeo.
Late 2012 - Meloetta.
Early 2013 - Genesect.
Late 2013 - Gen VI.
2014 - RS3DS.

After all, with the Kami trio being in the anime rather than a movie, that only leaves the Muskedeers and Kyurem to be in the movies; so we could either see something like:
2012: Keldeo and Kyurem (with Cobalion, Terrakion and Virizion having minor roles like the beasts in the Zoroark movie - Kyurem being there for Grey promotion).
2013: Meloetta and Genesect.
2014: Generation VI Pokémon + Gemeration III Pokémon.

After all, they'd use the movies to promote the latest games, and advertising two regions of Pokémon at once (such as a new Pokémon, as well as a legendary from another old one) would be a bit much. With Movie 8, we had Mew, who was representing Kanto, and Lucario, who was used to help hype up the then-unreleased Diamond and Pearl; then we had Movie 9, which purely focused on Manaphy to promote an event in Ranger, and in turn, the recently released Diamond and Pearl. Movie 13, the HGSS promotion movie had Celebi and the beasts for Johto, but was also showing off Zorua and Zoroark from the then-unreleased Black and White.

With the 2013 movie, having two mythical Pokémon wouldn't be much of a problem. Distribute a Meloetta in Late 2012; then for pre-order tickets for the movie, give out one that knows a special move.

That would then leave early 2014 for RS3DS promotion.

Your time line is weird. The event Pokemon are specifically designed in every generation to star in the future Pokemon movies. Although not impossible, I highly doubt they'd have 2 event Pokemon in one movie...