Review S13 EP08: Flint Sparks the Fire!

[Lugnut]

I like how they went about Volkner's personality. It seemed alot like that of his in the games. I like it when the anime tries to follow the games closely. Anyway, I still find James' obsession with bottle caps amusing. The whole "they stole my cap, so I'm taking over the city" theme was odd, but thats the Rockets' sense of humor.

 

[Ashfangirl22]

This is one of my favorite episodes of the series.
I love the comparsions and the animation.
Every thing about it was great ^^
I give it a 5/5. Never get bored of watching it.

 

[NoodleChefKyle]

This episode was freakin' cool! Volkner was depressing though. I expected him to fall asleep during Ash's battle with Flint. All in all, I'd definitely watch this again.

 

[Somari]

It seemed alot like that of his in the games.

It seemed completely different to me. While Volkner was unenthusiastic he wasn't nearly as depressed and mopey as his anime counterpart..But his hair is bright blond, not sandy.

 

[Dexter]

I kinda found this episode odd. There was something off about Volkner in general, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Ampharos King]

The general premise of the episode is still the same as in the games. Volkner, who has remained undefeated at that point, loses his interest in battling weak trainers and decides to not hold any more challengers. Flint asks Ash to cheer Volkner up so he can get his battle.
However, in the games, Volkner had a desire to battle the Elite 4 and that if he defeats the player character, he will start to challenge them. In the anime, Volkner does not display an immediate goal to battle the Elite 4. If that is what you meant.

 

[Luna Tiger]

Volkner was certainly more complacent to battle the player in the games. It's like, "Found you!" and "Okay, we'll fight. But if you don't do anything for me, I'mma gonna go after the E4."

Here, it's just plain and simple, "Don't wanna. M'having a falling out with Flint. *digs heels into the ground*"

 

[Queen Cynthia]

OK, guys before you start reading my review, I've go to warn you: Please prepare for some angry ranting from my part, because I'm REALLY pissed off! (possible typos are the result of me being so angry)


So, let's begin with the positive aspects, the Flint/ Volkner conflict:
After watching the first part of today's episode I was overjoyed and excited about a GREAT plot. Volkner's voice fitted just perfectly for someone who's lost all his belief in the meaning of life.
Also, I liked that motif of losing all your interest in the world and becoming depressed instead. The way Volkner was portrayed in the first 10 minutes was incredibly awesome and what's even better, the whole plot was extremely mature and profound. THAT'S what Pokemon should always be like! That's what I want to see when I'm demanding a more mature Pokemon Anime. Do you now get what I've always wanted to say? Remember that plot when we argue again about the question how mature an episode was in another review thread, will you?

Definitely my favorite scene was this:

Volkner (looking drunk and depressed alike): "If you want to punch me, do it"
Flint: "It's not even worth the time it takes to do it"

EPIC!!! Have we ever had a more exciting or a more mature scene than this one? (except for Cynthia's episodes, of course)


OK, these were the positive aspects. I shall now switch into "ranting mode" (but this time you'll see that it's totally justified):

Everything was so promising and almost perfect until the catastrophe started, namely the battle. Writers, what was going on in your crazy minds when you were writing this??

The first two rounds, Infernape vs. Buizel and Infernape vs. Infernape went as planned and as you would expect it with Flint dominating the battle completely.
But then the catastrophe got under way: Here we have probably an Elite Four member's most powerful Pokemon which knocked out two of Ash's strongest (!) Pokemon with just one(!) move, there we have Pikachu which we've already witnessed going down against much much weaker opponents and less powerful attacks in a much shorter time.
And now, you damn writers, don't tell that it actually needs 2(!) Close Combat(!) attacks and, believe it or not, three times Flare Blitz(!!!), let alone all of Infernape's other powerful attacks, to take down said Pikachu who lost against a simple Onix when fighting in the Oreburgh gym against Roark for example.

No, NO, NOOO! This was once again twisted logic at its best! I hate you writers, I'M CURSING you for messing up this battle which could have been epic otherwise!

An Elite Four member is supposed to be almost perfect both as a person and as a trainer (I said "almost" because there is only one person who is perfect, Cynthia) and during the first two rounds of the battle, Flint already proved that he rightly deserves his title.
So, I'm asking you, why in the world do the writers have the cheek to screw up the last part by turning Pikachu into an almost invincible, totally and ridiculously overpowered fighting machine that's even more DEM-like than back then against Regice???!!!:saiyan::banghead:

I'll tell you why: For the sake of the plot so that they have a reason for Volkner to change his attitude and to be transformed inwardly.
The idea was good, no doubt about it, but the way it was put into practice was terrible and pathetic!!:banghead: What's the point of Volkner's change of attitude if all the writers can come up with is a lame, uncreative and above all illogical trick (an overpowered Pikachu)!?!? If Flint's Infernape can knock out Buizel and Ash's Infernape with just one move, why in the world are we expected to believe that Pikachu can't be defeated with two attacks at the most? Don't we all know that although being able to attack hard, Pikachu is pretty bad at taking much damage??!!
I'm lacking the words to express my anger...all I can do is quoting Paul: "Pathetic!"

And yes, I can already imagine what you are going to respond:

-Piplup is going to respond that I should enjoy Pokemon as it is regardless of all those logical mistakes ( No, I won't. I'm sick and tired of having to see how the writers are constantly messing up the series I love most. If I enjoyed that, I would be hypocritical)
-dman_dustin is going to try to explain the logic behind that fight ( Sorry, buddy, I really appreciate your posts, but I guess this time you won't convince me, as there will simply be no reasonable explanation)
- Don and Grave-E are gong to tell me how ridiculous it is to take Pokemon seriously in the first place ( I couldn't care less...)
- And finally Dogasu is going to say that it's the same Pikachu that took down Regice ( Yes, but that's no real explanation either, because said battle was cheap as well. The only question is which battle was worse.)


OK, don't get me wrong I really don't want to insult anybody personally. I just want to express my deep anger over that messed up episode which started so great and promising.
You see, writing and ranting about it somehow helps me to cool down and to come to terms with that catastrophic outcome!

Thanks for listening to me. I'm feeling a teensy bit better now.
No grade for today's episode, however.

 

[Luna Tiger]

*rae* Y'realize that whole battle was less Flint showing us he's awesome (which he is) and more about reminding Volkner that there is more to battling than pounding confident and not so confident weak-hearted challengers into the dust, right? That it's more of what's in your heart than on your team.

No shit it was for the plot. Volkner has a Raichu; Ash has a Pikachu. They were not going to pass up any chance to make the parallels when Ash is all about caring for his team and the fight, and Volkner doesn't /want to fight/ anymore. A swift punch to memory lane: it'll do it every time.

And since it ties in VERY WELL with the proprietor (who is also so damn awesome, and makes its own parallels to the battle at hand with the battle they had years ago), I think you're missing the bigger picture.

 

[63cohen]

I agree with Queen Cynthia. It seemed like Volkner just went in to temptation to get out of his gloom way too easy. It needed better explanation. For a plot episode, it needed more work.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

*rae* Y'realize that whole battle was less Flint showing us he's awesome (which he is) and more about reminding Volkner that there is more to battling than pounding confident and not so confident weak-hearted challengers into the dust, right? That it's more of what's in your heart than on your team.

That's exactly (!) what I wrote, but they could have done it differently. Having Pikachu take thousands of hits although it had been shown before that only one of them is sufficient to knock out Ash's Pokemon is just cheap, cheap, cheap....
If they really wanted to draw a parallel between Ash and Volkner they could have had Infernape knock Pikachu out with two powerful attacks and then have Ash take care of his buddy with caring affection. That would have caused Volkner to rethink his attitude as well
It's the immense number of attacks I'm complaining about, because this was totally unnecessary to convey the episode's message and nearly destroyed Flint's reputation!

 

[Luna Tiger]

That's exactly (!) what I wrote, but they could have done it differently. Having Pikachu take thousands of hits although it had been shown before that only one of them is sufficient to knock out Ash's Pokemon is just cheap, cheap, cheap....
If they really wanted to draw a parallel between Ash and Volkner they could have had Infernape knock Pikachu out with two powerful attacks and then have Ash take care of his buddy with caring affection. That would have caused Volkner to rethink his attitude as well
It's the immense number of attacks I'm complaining about, because this was totally unnecessary to convey the episode's message and nearly destroyed Flint's reputation!

Flint and Volkner are equally connected through their pokémon, and you're missing that. Infernape vs Ash's Pikachu is just as much a parallel between Flint vs Volkner when they were children, battling against each other.

Buizel and Ash's Infernape went down like nothing, as they should have (showing off that type advantage and the same species aren't going to win it for him), and that demonstrates Flint's superiority.

However, if Volkner's emotions turned by Ash's care for Pikachu after a loss from one or two hits, then it would have been a cheaper ploy than what you're complaining about.

Volkner needed to see his younger self in Ash (a time when battling was a passion), and that meant continuing the battle, since getting Volkner in the mood to battle Ash is pretty much what the fight is all about. See himself, see the hearts that some trainers still carry.

What symbolism are you missing here?

 

[dman_dustin]

LOL at Queen Cynthia, I mean seriously it is not like Flint was ever going to lose the match.

And Queen Cynthia, I'm getting sick of you putting people on pedestals.

"OH no Cynthia didn't OHKO an Arceus, DAMN YOU WRITERS"

Seriously Pikachu was never going to win, Infernape wasn't even taking any sort of damage at all. And just because Pikachu survived a few hits and it's cheap.

HOW CAN SOMETHING BE CHEAP IF IT IS NOT BENEFICIAL AT ALL? If perhaps Infernape lost, then maybe, but there was just no way that was ever going to happen. Not even if Ash's own Infernape and Buizel lasted just as long Pikachu did.

And also I agree fully with Roronoa Zorua from above this post.

 

[63cohen]

LOL at Queen Cynthia, I mean seriously it is not like Flint was ever going to lose the match.

And Queen Cynthia, I'm getting sick of you putting people on pedestals.

"OH no Cynthia didn't OHKO an Arceus, DAMN YOU WRITERS"

Seriously Pikachu was never going to win, Infernape wasn't even taking any sort of damage at all. And just because Pikachu survived a few hits and it's cheap.

HOW CAN SOMETHING BE CHEAP IF IT IS NOT BENEFICIAL AT ALL? If perhaps Infernape lost, then maybe, but there was just no way that was ever going to happen. Not even if Ash's own Infernape and Buizel lasted just as long Pikachu did.

And also I agree fully with Roronoa Zorua from above this post.

But you see, it is beneficial. It shows us false information, Pikachu being more powerful that it actually is. This is one reason I gave up on the Pokemon anime, varying power levels. In this episode Pikachu was able to keep up with an E4 poke, who previously OHKO two of his others (one being type disadvantage). Yet earlier this season it got knocked out from one hit of a raging Metagross.

If you are going to vary power levels, explain a bit. In the spoiler below I will compare.

Spoiler

In Yugioh, the deck is the power level. So as the deck changes, so does the power (explanation). In DBZ the planet and opponent themselves influence the power level (explanation) Where is the explanation for Pikachu to go from sorry ass chipmunk to god beaver?

 

[Idon'tcare]

It's simple Queen Cynthia- In anime when someone becomes determined to beat someone way stronger than them they'll constantly get up, not giving up the fight, despite being weaker than their opponent. As Ash and Pikachu have a very close bond Pikachu could sense Ash's determination not to give up so Pikachu felt just the same. Most of the time the outcome is that they lose to this person they're fighting as their opponent is way stronger than them, and in some anime they almost risk their own lives trying to beat them. Yeah, this is often a common thing in anime.

 

[dman_dustin]

But you see, it is beneficial.

Spoiler

It's only beneficial if someone wins.

Thunder Armor was "DEM" because Swellow and Pikachu won.

Skitty vs Dusclops was "DEM" because Skitty won

Squirtle vs Ariados was cheap because Squirtle won

Pikachu vs Regice was cheap because Pikachu won

Ash using his Kanto Pokemon against Brandon was cheap because they won.

No one says something is cheap or DEM when the DEM Pokemon loses despite some impossible event that occurred. Why should this battle be counted as cheap or DEM? I mean it isn't like the writers have been consistent with its strength, I mean remember how many hits Pikachu took during the full battle (including Burn?).

If the writers want something to lose they'll make it lose really quickly if said Pokemon has no further benefit. It has nothing to do with strength or weakness or the portrayal, otherwise Ash's Pokemon got really screwed over the "years."

But see here's where the double standard thing applies in this case. The only people who are even going to "complain" that Pikachu is overpowered in this episode, is because Pikachu isn't their favorite Pokemon on Ash's Team. Oh no but if certain fans have some Pokemon on some ridiculous pedestals three things can occur: 1. Pokemon gets knocked out easily; those fans complain. 2. Pokemon takes a lot of hits and loses; Fans complain (except maybe in the case of an E4 member), and finally 3. Pokemon takes out two-three of opposing trainers' Pokemon and suddenly it's the strongest Pokemon Ash has ever had.

I mean the only reason to complain, is it's because its Pikachu. No other reason other than "Darn rotten rodent managed to last longer than other two." Besides even ignoring the biasness and ridiculousness, you have to think of all the incredible real life stories that occurred (and no don't agrue, these actually occurred). A woman's child is stuck under a vehicle and due to some (biochemical; I think that's the word) reason said woman is capable of lifting the vehicle up just enough to get her child out. How does this apply to Pikachu? Pikachu was Ash's last chance to do anything. Pikachu knows this, it could have forced itself to keep battling until the very last moment where it just could not. Sometimes things happen unexpectedly and you fall unconscious easily. Other times you can force yourself and you can last longer. Case in point: Sometimes when I overexert myself when it comes to lifting I end up almost or actually vomiting, and this isn't something that took minutes, this just basically for lifting up a couch for like 30 seconds (at most). Other times I can last hours when I'm playing a sport or having fun for example.

Human biology is very random, it's not always constant. This can be applied to Pikachu because the writers don't keep strength constant. I'm almost positive that Ash's Pokemon (or any other Pokemon) have their ups and downs just like real humans do.

While I'm calming down, before I get worse (if I haven't already gone too far). I'm just going to stop. This will be my last post on the subject.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

However, if Volkner's emotions turned by Ash's care for Pikachu after a loss from one or two hits, then it would have been a cheaper ploy than what you're complaining about.

One question: Why?
I see no reason to assume that such a long battle would have been necessary to turn Volkner's life around in the first place. One word or one action by Ash (for example caring affection for Pikachu) could easily have been enough to make Volkner remember his past.

And just because Pikachu survived a few hits and it's cheap.

A FEW HITS ?!
That's the actual problem we're talking about! It wasn't just "a few hits" coming from a weak random trainer's Pokemon but , I say it again,
2x Close Combat (one of the most powerful Fighting-type attacks)
3x Flare Blitz (one of the most powerful Fire-type attacks)
+ Thunderpunch and several Mach Punches
coming from the strongest Pokemon of an ELITE FOUR MEMBER!

Now you just have to be fair and admit that no intermediate trainer's Pokemon (=Ash's Pokemon) has such a strong determination to endure that cascade of deadly attacks I've just mentioned.

No one says something is cheap or DEM when the DEM Pokemon loses despite some impossible event that occurred. Why should this battle be counted as cheap or DEM?

To be honest I don't get the logic behind that! So what you're basically saying is that every trick is allowed as long as a Pokemon doesn't take advantage of it? Come on, how primitive a series would that be?
I don't think that you can be serious about that.

In anime when someone because determined to beat someone way stronger than them they'll constantly get up, not giving up the fight, despite being weaker than their opponent. As Ash and Pikachu have a very close bond Pikachu could sense Ash's determination not to give up so Pikachu felt just the same.

That's right in principle. But there is also the danger of taking this kind of argument for ANY illogical scene or battle. Since I started paying attention to the logic of the battles more in detail, I've heard this explanation EVERY TIME I complained about a flawed battle.See, it's getting old and I can't help thinking that it's a lame excuse for something that's simply written badly.
Let's bet: if in Pokemon BW Ash loses with his Pikachu against a random CoD again, we'll hear that argument again for sure

It CAN be applied to some cases every once in a while, but if it serves as an uncreative excuse for every battle which can't be explained otherwise, it'll get boring and unconvincing.

And Queen Cynthia, I'm getting sick of you putting people on pedestals.

I'm not putting anybody on pedestals who doesn't deserve it
We're talking about an Elite Four member and I guess I have the right to expect that the writers have Flint dominate the entire action. By having Pikachu take countless hits( although one or two of them would normally have led to a KO) the writers destroy Flint's reputation! But he doesn't deserve that, because he's a great character and that's making me so angry!

It shows us false information, Pikachu being more powerful that it actually is. This is one reason I gave up on the Pokemon anime, varying power levels. In this episode Pikachu was able to keep up with an E4 poke, who previously OHKO two of his others (one being type disadvantage). Yet earlier this season it got knocked out from one hit of a raging Metagross.

Couldn't have said it better myself! (Well, I said more or less the same in my first post ^^)
That example with Metagross further underlines the ridiculousness of that sudden power-up.

"OH no Cynthia didn't OHKO an Arceus, DAMN YOU WRITERS"

Hey, I actually like that! But a Two-Hit-KO would be fine with me as well

 

[Paulisthebest]

Spoiler

It's only beneficial if someone wins.

Thunder Armor was "DEM" because Swellow and Pikachu won.

Skitty vs Dusclops was "DEM" because Skitty won

Squirtle vs Ariados was cheap because Squirtle won

Pikachu vs Regice was cheap because Pikachu won

Ash using his Kanto Pokemon against Brandon was cheap because they won.

No one says something is cheap or DEM when the DEM Pokemon loses despite some impossible event that occurred. Why should this battle be counted as cheap or DEM? I mean it isn't like the writers have been consistent with its strength, I mean remember how many hits Pikachu took during the full battle (including Burn?).

If the writers want something to lose they'll make it lose really quickly if said Pokemon has no further benefit. It has nothing to do with strength or weakness or the portrayal, otherwise Ash's Pokemon got really screwed over the "years."

But see here's where the double standard thing applies in this case. The only people who are even going to "complain" that Pikachu is overpowered in this episode, is because Pikachu isn't their favorite Pokemon on Ash's Team. Oh no but if certain fans have some Pokemon on some ridiculous pedestals three things can occur: 1. Pokemon gets knocked out easily; those fans complain. 2. Pokemon takes a lot of hits and loses; Fans complain (except maybe in the case of an E4 member), and finally 3. Pokemon takes out two-three of opposing trainers' Pokemon and suddenly it's the strongest Pokemon Ash has ever had.

I mean the only reason to complain, is it's because its Pikachu. No other reason other than "Darn rotten rodent managed to last longer than other two." Besides even ignoring the biasness and ridiculousness, you have to think of all the incredible real life stories that occurred (and no don't agrue, these actually occurred). A woman's child is stuck under a vehicle and due to some (biochemical; I think that's the word) reason said woman is capable of lifting the vehicle up just enough to get her child out. How does this apply to Pikachu? Pikachu was Ash's last chance to do anything. Pikachu knows this, it could have forced itself to keep battling until the very last moment where it just could not. Sometimes things happen unexpectedly and you fall unconscious easily. Other times you can force yourself and you can last longer. Case in point: Sometimes when I overexert myself when it comes to lifting I end up almost or actually vomiting, and this isn't something that took minutes, this just basically for lifting up a couch for like 30 seconds (at most). Other times I can last hours when I'm playing a sport or having fun for example.

Human biology is very random, it's not always constant. This can be applied to Pikachu because the writers don't keep strength constant. I'm almost positive that Ash's Pokemon (or any other Pokemon) have their ups and downs just like real humans do.

While I'm calming down, before I get worse (if I haven't already gone too far). I'm just going to stop. This will be my last post on the subject.

*Applause*

Man, if you could see me now. I would be giving you a standing ovation for that entire post! Usually, I would put up my thoughts about the episode and it would be a lot of words. I’m going to put up my opinions probably tomorrow.

I did not see the episode today, but I’ll probably catch it on YouTube later tonight. I’ve watched it countless times in Japanese so I can’t wait to watch the U.S. version.

Once again I applaud you for that spoiler post.

 

[hopeandjoy]

Satoshi and Pikachu are just Determinators.

Now you've just lost five hours of your life.

 

[Hellwarden]

One thing I've always wondered about this ep was why people slam Buizel for losing in this ep, but not Ash's Infernape. Neither of them managed to even graze Flint's powerhouse, so what gives?


Eh whatever.


This ep really does show off DP superior story arc for the gym leaders. Volkner does come off depressed and solemn in this ep.