DuArt and Pokemon Dub Music

[Kazamatsuri]

Since much of the talk in the latest episode threads has evolved into a discussion about how the Dub handles the background music, I thought I'd create this topic so that the subject can be discussed in its own thread.

It seems that for Season 11 Pokemon DP Battle Dimension, DuArt has taken over Taj' role as PUSA's post production company. Many suspect that PUSA's pattern of how the Dub music is handle might be broken, and that DuArt may be directly responsible for that. The pattern consist of the Dub alternating between 4Kids' stock music and PUSA's own Dub music every other episode. But with Tears for Fears and Once There Were Greenfields, the two latest episodes and the first two episodes to air this season, both used only PUSA Dub music when not keeping the original BGM, prompting many to believe the cycle has been broken. If that is the case, I think has more to do with contracts expiring, and may or may not directly relate to Taj and/or DuArt. And I also want to point out that the cycle has not always been consistent in episodes such as Sweet Baby James and the two-part Deoxys special. Having said that however, I believe that whichever music gets used in DP056 will determine whether or not 4Kids' stock music will be used in the Dub again.

From what I've read, people seem to prefer the Dub music composed under 4Kids as opposed to PUSA's music. To be honest, if I were to here a bunch of PUSA tunes and a bunch of 4Kids tunes back-to-back for the very first time, I would probably pick 4Kids' music by a nosehair. but you have to keep in mind that how the music gets inserted into the series is just as important (if not moreso) than the music itself. For example, AG120 (or was it AG121, I don't remember), the undubbed clip special handled the music very poorly. It was all Japanese music that we all know and love, but the way it used in that particular episode was just a mess.

Having said all that, I'm kind of glad the Dub is removing 4Kids' stock music, if that is indeed the case. For one thing, this eliminates the instability that came with the cycle in question. Also, with half the Dub music out of the picture, this may leave more room to keep more of the original music. I'm still hopeful that will happen, despite what we got in these last two episodes.

 

[Kthleen]

I'm one who much prefers 4Kids' music to PUSA's. I don't know if it's just familiarity, liking (or at least not minding) the style, or some combo thereof (which is most likely), but I do recall hearing a piece of PUSA music for the first time and thinking, What the hell is that?!

I do watch the Japanese version, but in terms of bgm, I don't really mind in the dub unless 1. they replace a piece I was really looking forward to hearing again, 2. the music sucks, and/or 3. it doesn't fit the scene, regardless of whether I like it or not. There's also 4. I quite like the replacement and 5. the piece they got rid of sucks, but those are rather rare.

I wouldn't mind that DuArt replaces the Japanese music a lot... if PUSA's music weren't so crappy. :/ I would mind if they completely got rid of the Japanese music, but hopefully that won't happen. As for "[leaving] more room to keep more of the original music," that would be nice... if the rest of the music didn't suck. They should just use all of the original music.

...Yeah, I'm not too happy about PUSA's crappy music.

 

[Kairyu]

Neither TAJ nor DuArt decides what music goes in the show. All of that is PUSA's call.

I very much doubt this though..why did we get so much changes in the music when they switched from TAJ to DuArt? It has to be connected in some way..

And I agree with the first post, keeping the original tracks is whats most important, and this is where Season 11 fails so far.

 

[Jukain]

I feel like the only one who doesn't care now.

 

[Lil Brother]

Imo, not all of the PUSA/TAJ era's music is bad. The overwhelming majority is pretty bad, yeah. But they do have some good tracks that I would like to hear again throughout DuArt's new run.

4Kids msuic is pretty good, but it's been used with such redundancy I'm pretty much sick of it. What I'm wondering: remember that remix of a 4Kids tune that was in Fear Factor Phony? That sounded good. Whatever happened to that?

While the original music has had plenty instances when it was not used effectively, it's typically more enjoyable than a music edit-heavy episode's soundtrack, and I think the main way the Pokémon dub could be improved from the way it is now is by leaving it untouched. Some good dub-exclusive tracks are nice if we have to edit the original score around, but simply leaving it alone is my ideal.

 

[AtoMan]

Taj BGMs were unacceptable. I remember how much i whined about not keeping Pokedex tune and replacing it with something they made... and they started using the tune we all knew, so...

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

Well, personally I perfer PUSA's dub music over 4Kids. It has a better ring to it. But the only time I'll get upset about a music situation is if they replace Advanced Adventure, Elite Four/Gym Leader msuic any and all Team Rocket music, and movie music. Other than that I'm perfectly fine with it since music is a very minimal part to the show's enjoyment.

 

[Yash]

I'm a very musical person, so I pay more attention to that kind of stuff than most.

I enjoy the longer PUSA tracks that are used (usually to replace vocal tracks, but also have been used in other cases), as well as some of the 4Kids stuff. However, the Japanese version does a much better job at capturing the feel of the show, whereas the American made music from both companies tends to feel more synthetic, and all three of the different styles tends to conflict.

My ideal is that PUSA ends up using all of the original music at some point, regardless of whether or not they mix in their own sounds to fill in silence. Replacement of vocal tracks doesn't really matter to me as much - having vocals going on in the background conflicts too much (like during the original version of DP54, "Team Rocket Forever" was playing during Cacnea's training with Carnivine and Chimchar, and I just wasn't feeling it).

 

[poke07]

Here are my feelings on the BGM. Let me know if you agree with me.

4KIDS:
Speaking as a "seasoned" musician, as well as a "seasoned" Pokemon anime watcher, I would definitely agree that 4Kids music is the best (besides the Japanese). Many of the 4Kids tunes sounded like they could have been Japanese music, lots of sound variety...sounded like a number of very advanced synthesizers working to together. In fact, some of their music even sounded like an orchestra.

PUSA:
However, with the PUSA BGM, every piece sounds like it is coming from the same single synthesizer. The music seems very shallow, without a lot of feeling and emotion.

NOSTALGIA FACTOR:
I watched Pokemon during Season 1...and then just watched it on and off until the mid-end of Battle Frontier- when I started watching it regularly again. When I think back to season 1, I think of lots of memorable 4Kids pieces. For example, the piece played when Ash is escaping from the Spearows is a classic unforgettable 4Kids melody. What about when Ash is trying to catch Pidgey in Episode 1 as well? Or what about the great 4Kids stadium music (with the trumpeting fanfares and crowd cheering BGM). These are all great tracks and I am able to IDENTIFY with them, because I have heard them a lot before and remind me of my youth.

MELODIES:
The 4Kids music has distinct melodies that are memorable. The PUSA music just seems to go on and on with no particular melody...more like just a bunch of interludes rather than pieces.

QUESTION:
Is Manny Corallo still the composer? Or do they have somebody new now?

 

[Dogasu]

Good riddance, I say.

Though it's still bothersome that PUSA's still replacing the Japanese music. They really do need to stop dubbing the show like it's still 1996.

I very much doubt this though..why did we get so much changes in the music when they switched from TAJ to DuArt?

"So much changes?" All that happened was PUSA stopped using 4Kids' stock music (most likely because they don't have access to it anymore, either because the contracts expired or because TAJ took it with them when they left the show).

PUSA still calls the shots about what music gets used when.

 

[Doters]

I never really understood PUSA's logic of replacing all the original music with their synthesized shit. Do they think they're going to lose their target audience if they keep all the Japanese music? Or are they just trying to be assholes?

 

[Kthleen]

I never really understood PUSA's logic of replacing all the original music with their synthesized shit. Do they think they're going to lose their target audience if they keep all the Japanese music? Or are they just trying to be assholes?

Some think it's because in order to bring it over, they have to pay a bunch for it, and it's cheaper just to make their own crap than to bring over the good stuff.

I have no idea if that's true, but it sucks regardless.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Though it's still bothersome that PUSA's still replacing the Japanese music.

After the dull, lackluster score to movie 10, can you blame them? Just because it's the original music doesn't make it good, and I say that as someone who obsessively listened to film scores for her entire teenage years. Just because it's someone the director hires doesn't mean it immediately works with the product. The same can be said of pretty much any aspect of filmmaking as well.

 

[Dogasu]

They kept the Darkrai movie score intact...

And anyone who thinks the soundtrack to that movie is dull really has no taste in music, in my opinion.

 

[Musashi]

Even if they do have to pay a lot, that still doesn't explain why most of the time PUSA puts music in where there was none originally. I don't think kids will change the channel during dramatic fights if music isn't playing.

And speaking of the movies, why is it that they don't mess with the music there? (Not to mention the script is more accurate.) Do they have some special contract that the movies need to be as close to the original as possible?

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

They kept the Darkrai movie score intact...

And anyone who thinks the soundtrack to that movie is dull really has no taste in music, in my opinion.

I know they left it intact. And it was mind-numbingly boring and sounded exactly the same as the scores from all the other movies. There was nothing that stood out about it, even though music was supposed to be so important to the storyline. You'd think they could have summoned up some better music, but no, it was schlock from beginning to end.

Music should enhance the overall movie experience, but with movie 10, it *detracted* because it was so bad. It was like something you'd hear in an elevator. And unlike some scores that don't work with the movie but can work on their own, it couldn't even stand alone.

 

[Dogasu]

Whatever. You're entitled to your own opinion. But I strongly disagree with you and don't see what the hell you're talking about. If you think the music in the Darkrai movie sounded like elevator music, then I can only conclude that the elevators on the West Coast are waaaaaaaay more exciting than any elevator I've ridden on.

Even if they do have to pay a lot, that still doesn't explain why most of the time PUSA puts music in where there was none originally. I don't think kids will change the channel during dramatic fights if music isn't playing.

Sadly, a lot of companies still think that. Of course, most of the companies who do are insanely out-of-touch with modern-day dubbing, but whatever.

And speaking of the movies, why is it that they don't mess with the music there? (Not to mention the script is more accurate.) Do they have some special contract that the movies need to be as close to the original as possible?

I doubt it. I think it's just a matter of PUSA realizing that their synthesized crap isn't grand enough for something as "epic" as a movie and sticking to the fully orchestrated music that came with the Japanese version instead.

 

[Doters]

I know they left it intact. And it was mind-numbingly boring and sounded exactly the same as the scores from all the other movies. There was nothing that stood out about it, even though music was supposed to be so important to the storyline. You'd think they could have summoned up some better music, but no, it was schlock from beginning to end.

Music should enhance the overall movie experience, but with movie 10, it *detracted* because it was so bad. It was like something you'd hear in an elevator. And unlike some scores that don't work with the movie but can work on their own, it couldn't even stand alone.

Oracion and Darkrai Inochi Wo Kakete say hi

 

[Yash]

I doubt it. I think it's just a matter of PUSA realizing that their synthesized crap isn't grand enough for something as "epic" as a movie and sticking to the fully orchestrated music that came with the Japanese version instead.

I think it has to do more with the fact that 4Kids kept the Japanese music for all of the movies from the fourth one onward, so PUSA was just continuing the trend. In fact, I guarantee that if 4Kids had replaced all of the music in the movies, or kept all of it in the series, PUSA would do the same - their intention seems to be mimicking the 4Kids dub, while slowly increasing the usage of Japanese music.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Oracion and Darkrai Inochi Wo Kakete say hi

Neither of them really stood out, despite Oracion's importance to the plot. It sounded typical rather than anything special. And I don't even know what the other piece is, but I'm assuming it's Darkrai's theme, which didn't resonate at all.

The last piece from a Japanese Pokemon movie I really liked was the vocal track from movie 4 when Celebi's flying around. That's because it *was* different, it didn't sound like anything they'd done before.

Heck, watch Legend of Thunder--they couldn't even be arsed to write a whole score for that! They kept reusing music from the movies--including a snippit of the Guardian's Song from RevLu!