October CoroCoro begins to leak: Gym Leaders, many new Pokémon featured

[siburke939]

i cant really see it in yanappu, but the other two i could buy it the wise monkeys theme from definitely.
yanappu looks a little more "do no evil" in a way "hey hey leave me out of this guys" kind of way.

thank you!

people need to realise that crappy cartoon drawings can only show limited emotions & expressions - they're pokemon art not tate gallery material!

fwiw i am quite uncultured at times & i had only ever heard the "no evil x3" phrase before & i have NEVER read about the 3 monkeys thing so not only did i learn something new today i also clearly saw the correlation without prior knowledge of the full myth

to deny it is futile! ;-P

 

[63cohen]

do they need to wear sandwich boards for you to see it? dude it's very obvious from this pic that fire = hear / water = see / grass = speak (even just typing that it becomes more apparent)

bury your head in the sand all you want but remember where you heard it first ;-)

Nice, I learned what the three wise monkeys are just from this post alone.

+10 char

 

[Pilgrim]

thank you!

people need to realise that crappy cartoon drawings can only show limited emotions & expressions - they're pokemon art not tate gallery material!

fwiw i am quite uncultured at times & i had only ever heard the "no evil x3" phrase before & i have NEVER read about the 3 monkeys thing so not only did i learn something new today i also clearly saw the correlation without prior knowledge of the full myth

to deny it is futile! ;-P

well to be fair to the other guy, they coulda put yanappus hands in front of his mouth...
but yeah still,3 monkeys does seem quite likely. i mean 2 outta 3 aint bad right?

 

[DRaB]

people need to realise that crappy cartoon drawings can only show limited emotions & expressions - they're pokemon art not tate gallery material!

Wow. Ouch. Sugimori's official artwork is a crappy cartoon drawing? Give me a break, dude.

As an animator, I can tell you, cartoons can be VERY experssive. I mean, it doesn't take a degree in animation to know that, provided you've ever watched a cartoon. Just because it's "simple," doesn't mean it's easier to make. In some ways, things need to be placed even more delicately BEAUSE of the lack of tiny details.

Sugimori knows what he's doing. Don't insult him just because you have no respect for art.

fwiw i am quite uncultured at times & i had only ever heard the "no evil x3" phrase before & i have NEVER read about the 3 monkeys thing so not only did i learn something new today i also clearly saw the correlation without prior knowledge of the full myth

to deny it is futile! ;-P

If you didn't know that the "no evil" phrase was typically accompanied by monkeys... I find that astounding. But that is irrelevant.

The entire point of the three wise monkies is that one covers his mouth, so he can "speak no evil," one covers his ears, so he can "hear no evil," and one covers his eyes, so he can "see no evil."

Aside from one of the 'Appu Trio closing his eyes, none of them are doing anything even remotely similar to acting out a single one of those poses. I'd even accept the closed eyes as "see no evil" if one of the others covered his ears, had no ears, or even just had smaller ears. But none do. If anything, one seems to be actively LISTENING.

That is the OPPOSITE of "hear no evil!"

So far, your argument seems to have been as follows: "Just look at them! There's three of them! Together! In a row! They have poses!" Nevermind the fact that they are not the correct poses. And if I understand you correctly, the fact that they are monkeys didn't even factor into that?

I'm sorry. It's just not there.

I would like to reiterate: I'm not saying that it will never happen, but I am saying that the way in which they are posed right now is not representitive of what you say it is.

I'm still open to listen to any NEW information you have, but they aren't in the right poses right now. I don't see how you can't see that.

 

[gallowsCalibrator]

I hope to god we dont get another Fire/Fighting...so far, the fact that its saying it is Fire/Fighting is convincing me its fake. Nintendo isnt so lazy as to use the same type combo 3 Gens in a row.
And i can totally see the whole 3 wise monkeys thing...its pretty obvious.

 

[DRaB]

And i can totally see the whole 3 wise monkeys thing...its pretty obvious.

Then please explain it. Because none of them are posed correctly if that is the case.

 

[Zekurom]

i cant really see it in yanappu, but the other two i could buy it the wise monkeys theme from definitely.
yanappu looks a little more "do no evil" in a way "hey hey leave me out of this guys" kind of way.

Except that the third one was "speak no evil".

 

[DRaB]

To be fair, Zekurom, there is sometimes a fourth one which is "do no evil," but his pose would be having his arms crossed. Yanappu is doing the opposite, standing with arms wide open.

Also, there aren't four monkeys here.

 

[The Outrage]

Then please explain it. Because none of them are posed correctly if that is the case.

Possibly the same explanation as to why TP = KKK. Extrapolation gone too far from too little info.

The blue monkey I've seen called as "hear no evil" yet its the one with its eyes closed. The fire monkey was the one who is supposedly see no evil yet it seems like its just lazy and saying "go away" which is consistent to the information Pokebeach gives about its evolution: "It is fatter than Grass evolution and seems confused. Tail and hair have flames. Red/orange color"

thank you!

people need to realise that crappy cartoon drawings can only show limited emotions & expressions - they're pokemon art not tate gallery material!

Since another person already addressed the art comment, I'll address how easy it is to have a cartoon to actually cover its eyes, ears and mouth. No facial expression required.

Honestly, if your argument is that you can see the parallels without prior knowledge of the myth, I think my counterargument that I can't see the parallels despite prior knowledge trumps that.

How is it that fire and grass are "hear/speak" no evil when their pose is contradictory to that, yet water is "see no evil" because its eyes are closed? Perhaps I'd agree if they were subverting it, but obviously they aren't.

 

[siburke939]

Wow. Ouch. Sugimori's official artwork is a crappy cartoon drawing? Give me a break, dude.

As an animator, I can tell you, cartoons can be VERY experssive. I mean, it doesn't take a degree in animation to know that, provided you've ever watched a cartoon. Just because it's "simple," doesn't mean it's easier to make. In some ways, things need to be placed even more delicately BEAUSE of the lack of tiny details.

Sugimori knows what he's doing. Don't insult him just because you have no respect for art.



If you didn't know that the "no evil" phrase was typically accompanied by monkeys... I find that astounding. But that is irrelevant.

The entire point of the three wise monkies is that one covers his mouth, so he can "speak no evil," one covers his ears, so he can "hear no evil," and one covers his eyes, so he can "see no evil."

Aside from one of the 'Appu Trio closing his eyes, none of them are doing anything even remotely similar to acting out a single one of those poses. I'd even accept the closed eyes as "see no evil" if one of the others covered his ears, had no ears, or even just had smaller ears. But none do. If anything, one seems to be actively LISTENING.

That is the OPPOSITE of "hear no evil!"

So far, your argument seems to have been as follows: "Just look at them! There's three of them! Together! In a row! They have poses!" Nevermind the fact that they are not the correct poses. And if I understand you correctly, the fact that they are monkeys didn't even factor into that?

I'm sorry. It's just not there.

I would like to reiterate: I'm not saying that it will never happen, but I am saying that the way in which they are posed right now is not representitive of what you say it is.

I'm still open to listen to any NEW information you have, but they aren't in the right poses right now. I don't see how you can't see that.

blah blah blah look i'm not the one arguing here it's you - i pointed out what i saw & you're incapable of seeing it - fine we get it - let's agree to disagree & when it's revealed (or not revealed) one of us will have bragging rights

(fwiw: i'm not saying ALL cartoons are crap - i said pokemon is)

 

[V Faction]

It's just supposed to be an allusion to it, really.

Think about it. Hyappu is posed with his ear as the most prominent feature; Yannapu is the only one with his mouth open; Boappu has his eyes closed.

Each one of them is doing something indirectly but-not-directly related to the 3 Wise Monkeys. A reference to hearing, speaking, and seeing -- ears, a mouth, and eyes. The reason why none of them are actually covering the appropriate body part is exactly the reason you'd guess: because they're supposed to be regular Pokemon, not statues.

The fact that all three of them are so closely designed is a good indication of how related they truly are. One-in-the-same, you could call it. If they were all 3 different species of primate, then I could see each one having a bit more individuality. But as it stands, they're really going for that trio vibe. The typings are just a clever way to show that off.

 

[Pilgrim]

yeah like a subverted reference, a sideways reference.

also siburke99, i let the crappy cartoon comment slide the first time but drop it. a good chunk of those designs could not be more sound.
i mean i dont agree with the animes art style, i honestly think copying it as a child kind of made me lean towards drawing giant headed characters all the way into art college.


EDIT: as for yanappu he could be a "do no evil" monkey, one thats not very stand offish about it, or hasnt got the guts to fold his arms and appear threatening.

 

[DRaB]

Each one of them is doing something indirectly but-not-directly related to the 3 Wise Monkeys. A reference to hearing, speaking, and seeing -- ears, a mouth, and eyes.

Which would work if they all followed the same theme. One is listening. One has its mouth open. The last one is closing his eyes. One of these things is not like the others... You're extrapolating too much from too little.

The reason why none of them are actually covering the appropriate body part is exactly the reason you'd guess: because they're supposed to be regular Pokemon, not statues.

Is Psyduck a statue? Because he walks around holding his head a lot. He can still MOVE his arms, but as it stands now, he is most often drawn with his hands on the sides of his head. If they were really going for the Three Wise Monkeys vibe, they've already set a precendent for having Pokemon pose a certain way. Why would they go out of their way to AVOID that if they were going for a Three Wise Monkeys thing, where the poses are the most (and really the only) important detail?

The fact that all three of them are so closely designed is a good indication of how related they truly are. One-in-the-same, you could call it. If they were all 3 different species of primate, then I could see each one having a bit more individuality. But as it stands, they're really going for that trio vibe. The typings are just a clever way to show that off.

Yeah, except their evolutions don't look quite so similar to each other. And guess what--they aren't posed correctly either! Try again.

 

[V Faction]

My, what an attitude you have.

- It's 3 monkeys
- Each monkey, in its official Sugimori art, is depicted as being linked with one of the 3 forms - Listening, Speaking, and Seeing

As I said, they're simply alluding to the Wise Monkeys, not representing them. You're free to wait for more specific Dex entries, move pools, or even animation if it makes you feel better. Aside from the small design differences and obvious typing, there's no other discernable variations between the trio. When something comes in a triple stack like this, usually it's meant to represent something. Every trio in the games is like this. Tell me, what other famous 3 monkeys are there to represent these nearly alike simians?

 

[siburke939]

yeah like a subverted reference, a sideways reference.

also siburke99, i let the crappy cartoon comment slide the first time but drop it. a good chunk of those designs could not be more sound.
i mean i dont agree with the animes art style, i honestly think copying it as a child kind of made me lean towards drawing giant headed characters all the way into art college.


EDIT: as for yanappu he could be a "do no evil" monkey, one thats not very stand offish about it, or hasnt got the guts to fold his arms and appear threatening.

my opinion is that the drawings look like something a child could do - don't ever tell me to "drop" anything as you have no right to

if you like them then good for you that's your opinion - but honestly the art is one of the things that makes me feel embarrassed about playing pokemon - i'm only in it for the gameplay

 

[Bittersweet]

my opinion is that the drawings look like something a child could do - don't ever tell me to "drop" anything as you have no right to

if you like them then good for you that's your opinion - but honestly the art is one of the things that makes me feel embarrassed about playing pokemon - i'm only in it for the gameplay

Somewhere, a man named Sugimori is crying...

I really don't think the artwork looks that bad. I like the natural fluid poses and detail in his drawings... granted the monkeys are not the prime example.

 

[siburke939]

Somewhere, a man named Sugimori is crying...

I really don't think the artwork looks that bad. I like the natural fluid poses and detail in his drawings... granted the monkeys are not the prime example.

it's good for it's target audience (small children) but it just doesn't appeal to me personally - let's move on from that though as each to their own & all that jazz

i think some people are over-analysing what's going on here - i see "the 3 monkeys" but i'm being called out on it by someone - i may be wrong but the issue is that i can definitely see the link so to be told i can't see the link is preposterous!

i wonder if the 4th monkey will show up? hmm...

 

[DRaB]

Okay, my last comment was a little snarky. I probably could have phrased it better.

I'm just saying they don't appear to allude to the Three Wise Monkeys as it stands right now. And as I have said, and as you have just implied, I would be completely convinced if their Dex entries, move pools, or animations confirmed it. I just find it baffling how fast everyone jumped on board without that information, when the poses do not strongly resemble the iconic poses of the Three Wise Monkeys.

Also, we've seen their abilities. Each one has Glutton. I'd like to think that "hear[ing] no evil" would give one the Soundproof ability, and "see[ing] no evil" would give one a similar ability, but against moves like Glare and Mean Look, which rely on seeing the opponent. (Is there an ability like that already? I can't keep track...) Not sure how "speak no evil" could be tackled, unless it just couldn't learn any moves blocked by Soundproof. Now THAT, would be a subtle allusion!

You are right to state that they do look very similar right now, but their evolutions diverge quite a bit more than that. I think of it as being kind of like Eevee, with the obvious differnece that they actually ARE different types and "species" of Pokemon from the start. But when they evolve, they don't look the same as each other any more, which puts a bit of a dent in your "they look exactly the same" point.

And listen, man... I'm not usually one to say this, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Why is Pikachu an electric mouse? What do mice have to do with electricity? Sometimes it just doesn't mean anything. And as we all know, everything's better with monkeys. There's been at least one introduced in each Gen, you know.

You could still be right. I just think you're jumping the gun a bit.

my opinion is that the drawings look like something a child could do - don't ever tell me to "drop" anything as you have no right to

Wow, first off... No. The average child could not draw like that. Now you're just being insulting, both to Sugimori and to my craft. Seriously, drop it.

Also, I don't know what the law is in the UK, but freedom of speech typically doesn't exhempt you from criticism. We have just as much right to tell you to drop it as you had to say it in the first place. It's not a matter of 'rights' or legality. It's a matter of respect.

i wonder if the 4th monkey will show up? hmm...

Doubtful, as these guys are made for triple battles, but personally, I can't wait for the fanart. I'd love to see an Electric-type or an Ice-type.

 

[Pika2]

oh how i wish that bull could be the evolution of tauros

also that dragon could be the evolution of kibago as they are both tusk dragons right

 

[DRaB]

Not only are they both Dragon-types with prominent tusks, Pika2, but they also both have the Rivalry or Mold Breaker abilities. I'd guess they're related. There's probably a middle form, because they don't look very similar apart from that. Kibago's collar sort of looks like Ononokusu's plate armor. So there's that, too, I guess.