Possible Ruby and Sapphire Gen V: Official Discussion and Speculation thread

[Lugion]

So I guess the mentions of Red Gyarados in the Lake of Rage in DPPt means nothing because it's "fanon"? Was it a coincidence that remakes of Gold and Silver popped up in the same generation?

That has nothing to do with the debate at hand. I'm not debating the canon-status of HGSS and DPPt being concurrent.

Anyway, yes, we don't know when the original system came online. But thats a small point.

No, that's a major hole in your argument thus far.

We know that it happened within a span of, maybe, ten years? We know they worked on it together and that Lanette helped connect the Sevii Islands to Hoenn.

Well, obviously. But at what point did that start? It could very well have begun long before the beginning of RSE. You can trade freely between RSE and a trading-enabled FRLG.

Why would she leave an old email open on her only computer? There is the possibility she just checked her e-mail before the player got there but... I find that hard to believe.

So then what was the message Professor Oak had on his PC from the Pokémon League? Surely that wasn't a brand-new message. And even if it was, I myself sometimes go back over old messages from friends.

 

[Venator]

That has nothing to do with the debate at hand. I'm not debating the canon-status of HGSS and DPPt being concurrent.

Direct connectivity doesn't mean a thing. If Game Freak wants two games to be able to trade, Game Freak will make two games able to trade, regardless of any fanon timeline.

Uh-huh. So you know, I was responding to this part of your reply.

No, that's a major hole in your argument thus far.

It's a major hole provided by Game Freak itself. We don't know when the original system came online. However, Game Freak has provided something since the originals that could be assumed to mean something in this area: the presence of Game Freak in the Pokemon world. The creators of Pokemon put themselves in the game which could be used to infer that the development of the Pokemon Computer system was started around the same time, roughly, that the Pokemon games were being developed. It makes sense for an assumption, though, the truth is, we really have no idea when the original system came online.

Well, obviously. But at what point did that start? It could very well have begun long before the beginning of RSE.

Point taken. But no proof for it either way.

You can trade freely between RSE and a trading-enabled FRLG.

How do you enable trade between Hoenn and Kanto? You do the Ruby and Sapphire quest in the Sevii Isles.

So then what was the message Professor Oak had on his PC from the Pokémon League? Surely that wasn't a brand-new message. And even if it was, I myself sometimes go back over old messages from friends.

We do not know when that message was sent. However... Professor Oak isn't as much a computer geek as Lanette or Bill. He may have just got it or he may have forgotten his e-mail password for a long time.

 

[Lugion]

Uh-huh. So you know, I was responding to this part of your reply.

You're taking my reply out of context. If Game Freak wants to shake up our assumptions, they very well can. They have that power.

It's a major hole provided by Game Freak itself. We don't know when the original system came online. However, Game Freak has provided something since the originals that could be assumed to mean something in this area: the presence of Game Freak in the Pokemon world. The creators of Pokemon put themselves in the game which could be used to infer that the development of the Pokemon Computer system was started around the same time, roughly, that the Pokemon games were being developed. It makes sense for an assumption, though, the truth is, we really have no idea when the original system came online.

Exactly.

Point taken. But no proof for it either way.
How do you enable trade between Hoenn and Kanto? You do the Ruby and Sapphire quest in the Sevii Isles.

Hence "trade-enabled FRLG". There's no requirement for trading in the Hoenn games. If you wanted, you could trade over a Charmander at the very beginning of your adventure in Hoenn.

We do not know when that message was sent. However... Professor Oak isn't as much a computer geek as Lanette or Bill. He may have just got it or he may have forgotten his e-mail password for a long time.

Would you mind posting the exact contents of that message? If possible, translated from the original. I'd like to see it.

 

[Venator]

You're taking my reply out of context. If Game Freak wants to shake up our assumptions, they very well can. They have that power.

Sure they do. Have they used it yet?

Exactly.

Since the before-RBY timeline info tells us about real-life events, it can still be inferred that the development period of RG was the time that the Pokemon Computer System was put online.

Hence "trade-enabled FRLG". There's no requirement for trading in the Hoenn games. If you wanted, you could trade over a Charmander at the very beginning of your adventure in Hoenn.

Hoenn was a stepping stone...? I don't really understand your point here. You're saying, because you could trade at any time with any game, there isn't a timeline correlation between RSE and FRLG?

Would you mind posting the exact contents of that message? If possible, translated from the original. I'd like to see it.

Depends on which message. Do you want the one from Lanette's computer or Oak's computer? I really can't provide the Japanese Lanette letter because I don't own a Japanese copy of RSE (and only the synopsis I posted earlier can be found) but I haven't tried searching for Oak's letter as it really holds no importance in the matter of whether or not RSE and RBGYFRLG are within the same timeframe.

 

[The Outrage]

Sure they do. Have they used it yet?

Are you talking specifically about "trading between games not existing in the same time" or shaking up our fanon assumptions?

Because they've done both.

They had the time machine in Gen II, the past and future literally traded with each other. None of that transfer bullshit. People thought Legendaries couldn't have gender until Gen III, then they thought they couldn't be both genders or breed. Both happened in Gen IV (though Manaphy doesn't make more of itself).

Then people thought that "mode changes" were an exclusively Digimon concept. Then we got Deoxys and its "forme change"

The rigid level-trade-stone based evolutions have been broadened, and I'm sure outside of the GC games, people would argue that Game Freak would not change a Pokemon's method of evolution. Then Feebas' evolution method was changed in Gen V.

Regions being based off of places outside of Japan in the main series. While a bit funny, the existence of black people in Pokemon made some people surprised.

While there are many other things, I'll close with this: Game Freak actually making the two versions different enough to be almost worth it.

Canon is anything explicitly stated, fanon is anything we derive from canon no matter how well supported it is, will still be fanon unless "officially confirmed"

 

[Venator]

Are you talking specifically about "trading between games not existing in the same time" or shaking up our fanon assumptions?

Because they've done both.

They had the time machine in Gen II, the past and future literally traded with each other. None of that transfer bullshit. People thought Legendaries couldn't have gender until Gen III, then they thought they couldn't be both genders or breed. Both happened in Gen IV (though Manaphy doesn't make more of itself).

Then people thought that "mode changes" were an exclusively Digimon concept. Then we got Deoxys and its "forme change"

The rigid level-trade-stone based evolutions have been broadened, and I'm sure outside of the GC games, people would argue that Game Freak would not change a Pokemon's method of evolution. Then Feebas' evolution method was changed in Gen V.

Regions being based off of places outside of Japan in the main series. While a bit funny, the existence of black people in Pokemon made some people surprised.

While there are many other things, I'll close with this: Game Freak actually making the two versions different enough to be almost worth it.

Canon is anything explicitly stated, fanon is anything we derive from canon no matter how well supported it is, will still be fanon unless "officially confirmed"

First of all, HI OR, HOW HAVE YOU BEEN? I missed your excellent points. :<

Anyway, I was refering to "trading between games not existing in the same time". However, as you mentioned, they used a special machine to do so in RBGY to GSC. A time machine. But did they use that for RSE to FRLG trades? No, they didn't. They did, however, use Pal Park for RSEFRLG to DPPt and HGSS, undoing the canon aspect of the time machine.

 

[VeggiePopper]

Hoenn was a stepping stone...? I don't really understand your point here. You're saying, because you could trade at any time with any game, there isn't a timeline correlation between RSE and FRLG?

No. He said that if we're really going to take every little detail into account for every game's place in the timeline, like you're intending, then, since you can't trade from FRLG to RSE from the start, but you do can right from the start in RS to FRLG, then by the time RS (and thus, Emerald as well) begins the Kanto story has already ended (as Hoenn compatibility s only available after the game's story is beaten), so RSE takes place a bit later than FRLG.

But I thik it's been already proven that timeline is not an issue when it comes to trading between games. It has been already done (Time Capsule in GSC), so discussing this particular point is going nowhere, I think that belongs in another topic concerning the overall timeline.

EDIT: And the time machine was not undone because of canon, but because of Gameplay, since in Gen IV you don't trade, but you merely transfer.

As Outrage said, the only thing that is TRULY canon is that GSC/HGSS take place 3 years after RGBY/FRLG and that DPPt happens around the same time as GSC/HGSS. But RSE and BW's exact place is still unkown, whether we like it or not.

 

[Venator]

I guess so.

However, that does not change the point that Black and White take place x amount of time after the "Three Years Later" period of GSCDPPtHGSS which brings down the possibility of RSEmakes to the lowest levels in a long time.

 

[VeggiePopper]

I guess so.

However, that does not change the point that Black and White take place x amount of time after the "Three Years Later" period of GSCDPPtHGSS which brings down the possibility of RSEmakes to the lowest levels in a long time.

Just to put things right: Just like you, I believe that the chance of a RSE remake is lower than previous remakes, so I agree. Buuut...

But I think too that Pokémon availability and trading compatibility are not the main reasons to this (I've already explained before what my strongest reasons are); as it's been said: there's more than meets the eye.

 

[The Outrage]

Since this is a speculation thread, I'll just put my thought into this.

This is probably going to be a shorter generation due to being released at the tail-end of the DS's life. If there is going to be an RS remake, I'd think it would be in Gen VI.

 

[Silktree]

This really isn't a very good time to be a speculating Pokémon fan. I hope that unlike the pre-empting move before this generation, the first sign of Generation VI will surface in Movie 15 so that speculation can follow accordingly. That wouldn't have to conflict with the focus on the third version, considering what happened in Movie 7 with Deoxys, Rayquaza and Munchlax.

I'm also considering the possibility that Genesect will have a Wi-Fi event in the third version, much like Victini does in Black and White. That way, players would have further incentive to buy the third version upon release, and Movie 16 would have Genesect co-star with a Generation VI Pokémon which would receive the bigger focus (as is most likely going to be the case for Victini and Keldeo). The movie Genesect would be the only way to obtain the Cassette items (as well as obviously Genesect itself outside the third version), but it would also unlock another event in the Generation VI games.

 

[Seifer]

the pokemon from black and white arent transferable to the older gens are they

 

[Ivysaur]

I would like to point out something.

The large majority of Hoenn Pokemon received new sprites. Why would they receive new sprites over Sinnoh, Johto, and Kanto Pokemon, most of which retain their old Diamond and Pearl sprites instead of their new Platinum and HeartGold and SoulSilver ones?

Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Joshawott]

the pokemon from black and white arent transferable to the older gens are they

No. "Pokémon Black Version" and "Pokémon White Version" cannot trade with any previous generations. Pokémon may be transferred from Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, HeartGold or SoulSilver, but nothing from BW can be sent to DPtHGSS.

I would like to point out something.

The large majority of Hoenn Pokemon received new sprites. Why would they receive new sprites over Sinnoh, Johto, and Kanto Pokemon, most of which retain their old Diamond and Pearl sprites instead of their new Platinum and HeartGold and SoulSilver ones?

Just something to keep in mind.

Exactly. It would have made more sense to wait for remakes to give Hoenn Pokémon new sprites.

 

[Tolan]

transfering pokemon from gen3 to gen4 and then to gen5 would be a pain in the ass, so i think it'd make sense to make a remake

 

[VeggiePopper]

I would like to point out something.

The large majority of Hoenn Pokemon received new sprites. Why would they receive new sprites over Sinnoh, Johto, and Kanto Pokemon, most of which retain their old Diamond and Pearl sprites instead of their new Platinum and HeartGold and SoulSilver ones?

Just something to keep in mind.

So an aesthetical change is the main reason/hint for remakes? I can't follow your logic

Actually that HAS a reason: during Generation IV every Gen I/Kanto as well as Gen II/Johto Pokémon got new sprites in HGSSwhile every Gen IV/Sinnoh Pokémon got new sprites in Platinum. But only a few Gen III/Hoenn Pokémon (those who were part of the Sinooh Dex in Pt) received them, so by the start of Gen V (that is, BW), every Pokémon have had at least one updated sprite, so reusing them wasn't so stale... except Hoenn Pokés which whose DP sprites kept completely unchanged within the last 4 years thus feeling stale by this time. That's why Gen's I, II and IV Pokémon only got animated versions of their previous models while Gen III Pokémon got brand new models.

I fail to see how that "sreams so obviously" that there's gonna be Hoenn remakes...

 

[Ivysaur]

So an aesthetical change is the main reason/hint for remakes? I can't follow your logic

It's evidence against remakes. I apologize for not explaining my point clearly enough. ^^'

 

[VeggiePopper]

It's evidence against remakes. I apologize for not explaining my point clearly enough. ^^'

OK. So I apologize too for the missunderstanding. And then I must agree with you.

 

[Rocky505]

I do not see why people are saying there will not be a RSE remake when RGBY and GSC had them. And don't say it's because RGBY and GSC needed them because RSE deserves a remake just as much as they did.

 

[VeggiePopper]

Just because two games had a remake (in a five-game series) doesn't mean everyone must have one.

If they really wanted to "tie up all the generations" as some people claim, they could very well have release them during Gen Iv so that effectively every region would be playable in DS graphics. But guess what? It didin't happen, and with Nintendo (and thus its second parties) moving on to the 3DS, I think Pokémon will move on, too.

Then if the Hoenn remakes are indeed released for the 3DS, it would speak very badly about GF and Gen V with its main titles (that is, BW) being so overshadowed by a mere remake (which are, although part of the main series, not the focus of the generation but rather secondary, or if you better like it, complementary games).