Starter Discussion

[SirOni]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

Yes, Fennekin's gonna be a firefighter! This is gonna be sweet! Get ready for some foxy boxing!!

 

[Jukain]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

Well, I'm not panicking yet. I don't see any reason to panic. If anything, the information we're being given is contradictory. If there is even a reason to believe that a starter's moves can indicate what it's evo's types will be at all. I know I said Mudkip and Prinplup, but that is not enough, and regardless, there are other starters that learn junk that has nothing to do with their types OR their future types. I can see why anyone would panic, but all I see is a bunch of overblown nonsense. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll be dagged, though, if people will make like it was obvious. It wasn't. I will forever say there was a reason to doubt it.

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

I also do not believe there is any reason to panic just yet. Fennekin is also capable of learning a psychic type move, so I doubt Fennekin learning a possible fighting type move is going to matter at all. I also have faith that GameFreak feels we've had enough Fire/Fighting starter Pokemon. The last Fire type starter we've had that wasn't part Fighting was Typhlosion. The last non part fighting Fire type starter was 15 years ago, which is why I believe even Gamefreak should be able to see we are due for a different kind of Fire type starter.

It is those reasons why I do not believe Fennekin will evolve into a part Fighting type Pokemon, and is the reason why I shall not panic.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUs4m4JPyf8
It was super effective

I hope Glow Punch is just a TM move given out or found in the game and it's a special fighting attack so that Pokemon like Gengar and Alakazam can stop missing with Focus Blast.

Just gonna say, why would they showcase a TM move in pre-release footage? Usually the moves they show being used by a Pokemon in pre-release is usually a kind of move they can learn naturally. Prove me otherwise if I'm wrong.

 

[Rocky505]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

I didn't say it was a TM move. I said that I hoped it was so we would have better special fighting moves. They showed Solarbeam and Aerial Ace on Chespin(Both TM moves)

 

[Stratelier]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

We've had punch moves on quadrupedal pokes before, I think.

Nope. Every punching move ever can only be learned by bipedal Pokemon. There are one or two isolated odd cases (like Focus Punch; Quilava can learn it via TM before evolving into the more-bipedal Typhlosion, and Togekiss can learn it from its pre-evolution), but there are no clearly quadruped Pokemon learning any punching moves. At all.

That's not entirely true. Metagross is capable of learning Meteor Mash. And Darmanitan can learn Hammer Arm and Fire Punch.

Metagross and Darmanitan both learn it from their respective (and more obviously bipedal) pre-evolutions.

But I guess to phrase it more specifically, no clearly quadruped Pokemon (e.g. Swords of Justice) -- Fighting or otherwise -- learns any punching moves ever. In order to do a punching move you need something that's obviously an arm.

So the implication is that Fennekin's evolutions, typing irrelevant, will be bipedal. HOWEVER, Fennekin itself is clearly quadruped AND shown to be using Glow Punch. So if Glow Punch is an actual punching move, this is already an exception to the trend.

Personally I just think it was a critical hit noise because people are missing the fact that there's a nine level difference between the two Pokemon.

Critical hits don't get unique sound effects (as of G5).

 

[Rocky505]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

None of Metagross's line is bipedal though?

 

[Team Gaara]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

We've had punch moves on quadrupedal pokes before, I think.

Nope. Every punching move ever can only be learned by bipedal Pokemon. There are one or two isolated odd cases (like Focus Punch; Quilava can learn it via TM before evolving into the more-bipedal Typhlosion, and Togekiss can learn it from its pre-evolution), but there are no clearly quadruped Pokemon learning any punching moves. At all.

That's not entirely true. Metagross is capable of learning Meteor Mash. And Darmanitan can learn Hammer Arm and Fire Punch.

Metagross and Darmanitan both learn it from their respective (and more obviously bipedal) pre-evolutions.

But I guess to phrase it more specifically, no clearly quadruped Pokemon (e.g. Swords of Justice) -- Fighting or otherwise -- learns any punching moves ever. In order to do a punching move you need something that's obviously an arm.

So the implication is that Fennekin's evolutions, typing irrelevant, will be bipedal. HOWEVER, Fennekin itself is clearly quadruped AND shown to be using Glow Punch. So if Glow Punch is an actual punching move, this is already an exception to the trend.

Metagross learns Meteor Mash and Hammer Arm itself, not just through Metang (who does not lean Hammer Arm). I'm pretty sure Darumaka doesn't learn Hammer Arm, either.

I get what you're saying, but there are Pokemon that are not bipedal that can learn punching moves.

 

[Stratelier]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

None of Metagross's line is bipedal though?

Metang's two limbs are clearly arranged like arms, not legs. Note that Haunter isn't technically bipedal either, but it has hands, thus it's capable of punching moves.

 

[Team Gaara]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

We've had punch moves on quadrupedal pokes before, I think.

Nope. Every punching move ever can only be learned by bipedal Pokemon. There are one or two isolated odd cases (like Focus Punch; Quilava can learn it via TM before evolving into the more-bipedal Typhlosion, and Togekiss can learn it from its pre-evolution), but there are no clearly quadruped Pokemon learning any punching moves. At all.

That's not entirely true. Metagross is capable of learning Meteor Mash. And Darmanitan can learn Hammer Arm and Fire Punch.

Metagross and Darmanitan both learn it from their respective (and more obviously bipedal) pre-evolutions.

But I guess to phrase it more specifically, no clearly quadruped Pokemon (e.g. Swords of Justice) -- Fighting or otherwise -- learns any punching moves ever. In order to do a punching move you need something that's obviously an arm.

So the implication is that Fennekin's evolutions, typing irrelevant, will be bipedal. HOWEVER, Fennekin itself is clearly quadruped AND shown to be using Glow Punch. So if Glow Punch is an actual punching move, this is already an exception to the trend.

Metagross learns Meteor Mash and Hammer Arm itself, not just through Metang (who does not lean Hammer Arm). I'm pretty sure Darumaka doesn't learn Hammer Arm, either. Darmanitan learns Fire Punch at Lv22 and Darumaka doesn't evolve until Lv35.

I get what you're saying, but there are Pokemon that are not bipedal that can learn punching moves.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm hoping that they do what they did in Johto and NOT give the starters secondary types. As I said in another thread:

To me, the starters have always represented the basic elemental trio, and it doesn't feel right when their secondary typings contradict that (like when Empoleon is weak to fighting, Infernape's second type, even though as a water type it should be super effective against Infernape)

Although, if they must have secondary types, a secondary trio of Dark/Psychic/Fighting could be interesting, as long as Fennekin isn't fighting.

I'd be okay with the starters not getting secondary types. I kind of prefer it when they do, especially if they're interesting combination like with some of the third or fourth generation starters, but pure types is fine. I just don't want Fennekin to be Fire/Fighting. Anything else would be preferable. I'd prefer either a pure Fire type or a Fire/Psychic type. Although, I might just Fennekin for the third version/sequel games instead just to try out some of the other Fire types and I might want to use Chespin in X instead of using in in Y.

 

[Rainbow]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

I don't think they showed Fennekin's level in the video, but Froakie and Chespin were 25-30, so Fennekin was probably around there. I think that's the only reason it was able to use Glow Punch.

 

[Ampharos King]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

When did he use that? He didn't use it in the new trailer because that animation was different from Parting Shot.

On closer inspection, you are correct. It sounded like Froakie was using a move involving its voice. Maybe it's Snore?

I don't think they showed Fennekin's level in the video, but Froakie and Chespin were 25-30, so Fennekin was probably around there. I think that's the only reason it was able to use Glow Punch.

Fennekin's level was 14. Its level and HP flashed on the screen for a second.

 

[Stratelier]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

I get what you're saying, but there are Pokemon that are not bipedal that can learn punching moves.

Not to move the goalposts, but I guess I tend to commingle "bipedal" with "humanoid".

Doduo is bipedal, but not humanoid.
Dusknoir is humanoid, but not bipedal.

 

[Master Cyrus]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

I think the 3 starters should all be good choices and strong pokemon that aren't outclassed by others too quickly like what happened in Unova. I have no idea what the designers were thinking when they made the snivy line what it was, what with horrible moves, terrible ingame stats, and a niche that isn't all that important even in competitive. But at the same time there are pokemon like Infernape and Swampert who are so good there's almost no reason to use anything else of the type. So XY should have a balance between the 2 extremes.

 

[Stratelier]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

I have no idea what the designers were thinking when they made the snivy line what it was, what with horrible moves, terrible ingame stats, and a niche that isn't all that important even in competitive.

Leech Seed + Protect + Substitute for the win.

 

[Master Cyrus]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

I have no idea what the designers were thinking when they made the snivy line what it was, what with horrible moves, terrible ingame stats, and a niche that isn't all that important even in competitive.

Leech Seed + Protect + Substitute for the win.

If this is actually a main strategy ingame then there is something seriously wrong with the starter.

 

[Rocky505]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

None of Metagross's line is bipedal though?

Metang's two limbs are clearly arranged like arms, not legs. Note that Haunter isn't technically bipedal either, but it has hands, thus it's capable of punching moves.

But you said that Beldum and Metang were bipedal, and they're clearly not.

 

[Stratelier]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

Leech Seed + Protect + Substitute for the win.

If this is actually a main strategy ingame then there is something seriously wrong with the starter.

"Different", not "wrong" ... you have to play to your Pokemon's individual strengths.

Serperior isn't built to OHKO opponents, it's built to squeeze every last drop of HP out of the opponent over a long haul. With its high speed, Protect+Substitute gives you up to eight turns to survive virtually everything, and it's enough time for Leech Seed to finish the job (which buys extra turns for more Protect+Substitute). Add in Bind and if the opponent can't hit you for super effective damage, you've got them trapped and screaming.

But you said that Beldum and Metang were bipedal, and they're clearly not.

This

 

[Master Cyrus]

Re: Starter Discussion and Speculation

And why would I want to drag it out when Liligant has petal dance and ferrothorn can just power them into fainting in a fraction of the time? Using leech seed is extremely impractical vs most of ingame.